Do Ultra Conservatives Do more to Keep Folks out of Heaven then to Let Them In???

Originally Posted by revrandy

While true... many came to Johnathon Edwards Services and he preached messages like "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" here is an exert

The wrath of God burns against them, their damnation does not slumber; the pit is prepared, the fire is made ready, the furnace is now hot, ready to receive them; the flames do now rage and glow...
It is no security to wicked men for one moment, that there are no visible means of death at hand. It is no security to a natural man, that he is now in health, and that he does not see which way he should now immediately go out of the world by any accident, and that there is no visible danger in any respect in his circumstances. The manifold and continual experience of the world in all ages, shows this is no evidence, that a man is not on the very brink of eternity, and that the next step will not be into another world. The unseen, unthought-of ways and means of persons going suddenly out of the world are innumerable and inconceivable. Unconverted men walk over the pit of hell on a rotten covering, and there are innumerable places in this covering so weak that they will not bear their weight, and these places are not seen. The arrows of death fly unseen at noon-day; the sharpest sight cannot discern them. God has so many different unsearchable ways of taking wicked men out of the world and sending them to hell, that there is nothing to make it appear, that God had need to be at the expense of a miracle, or go out of the ordinary course of his providence, to destroy any wicked man, at any moment. All the means that there are of sinners going out of the world, are so in God's hands, and so universally and absolutely subject to his power and determination, that it does not depend at all the less on the mere will of God, whether sinners shall at any moment go to hell, than if means were never made use of, or at all concerned in the case...
God has laid himself under no obligation, by any promise to keep any natural man out of hell one moment. God certainly has made no promises either of eternal life, or of any deliverance or preservation from eternal death, but what are contained in the covenant of grace, the promises that are given in Christ, in whom all the promises are yea and Amen. But surely they have no interest in the promises of the covenant of grace who are not the children of the covenant, who do not believe in any of the promises, and have no interest in the Mediator of the covenant...

They say that After its initial presentation, the audience was so moved that many attendees were found openly weeping. There were also a number of reports of swooning, outcries, and convulsions from audience members. It was also reported that, unlike the stereotype of fire and brimstone preaching, Edwards read the sermon in a monotone voice with his eyes fixated on the church bellrope, and actually asked the audience to quiet down so he might finish his sermon

...makes one think..

I can belive this brother, but you are talking about people who have come to hear...I am talking about a one on one interaction...I am talking about making a path to church...if I can make a connection God will do the work...I am talking about making friends so that they see the love of God in me!

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by revrandy

While true... many came to Johnathon Edwards Services and he preached messages like "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" here is an exert

The wrath of God burns against them, their damnation does not slumber; the pit is prepared, the fire is made ready, the furnace is now hot, ready to receive them; the flames do now rage and glow...
It is no security to wicked men for one moment, that there are no visible means of death at hand. It is no security to a natural man, that he is now in health, and that he does not see which way he should now immediately go out of the world by any accident, and that there is no visible danger in any respect in his circumstances. The manifold and continual experience of the world in all ages, shows this is no evidence, that a man is not on the very brink of eternity, and that the next step will not be into another world. The unseen, unthought-of ways and means of persons going suddenly out of the world are innumerable and inconceivable. Unconverted men walk over the pit of hell on a rotten covering, and there are innumerable places in this covering so weak that they will not bear their weight, and these places are not seen. The arrows of death fly unseen at noon-day; the sharpest sight cannot discern them. God has so many different unsearchable ways of taking wicked men out of the world and sending them to hell, that there is nothing to make it appear, that God had need to be at the expense of a miracle, or go out of the ordinary course of his providence, to destroy any wicked man, at any moment. All the means that there are of sinners going out of the world, are so in God's hands, and so universally and absolutely subject to his power and determination, that it does not depend at all the less on the mere will of God, whether sinners shall at any moment go to hell, than if means were never made use of, or at all concerned in the case...
God has laid himself under no obligation, by any promise to keep any natural man out of hell one moment. God certainly has made no promises either of eternal life, or of any deliverance or preservation from eternal death, but what are contained in the covenant of grace, the promises that are given in Christ, in whom all the promises are yea and Amen. But surely they have no interest in the promises of the covenant of grace who are not the children of the covenant, who do not believe in any of the promises, and have no interest in the Mediator of the covenant...

They say that After its initial presentation, the audience was so moved that many attendees were found openly weeping. There were also a number of reports of swooning, outcries, and convulsions from audience members. It was also reported that, unlike the stereotype of fire and brimstone preaching, Edwards read the sermon in a monotone voice with his eyes fixated on the church bellrope, and actually asked the audience to quiet down so he might finish his sermon

...makes one think..

RevRandy, I've heard sermons like this. If they were preached by someone who said these things because they truly LOVED the souls present and feared for their eternal damnation, then the sermon was usually well received.

I've also heard sermons like this preached by preachers who just wanted to "lower the boom". Not out of love. Just out a sense that they said it because they could get away with it. Those sermons almost always fell flat. People didn't respond at all, or if they did it was little. And often, not a lasting change.

The difference was in the attitude in which they were delivered. If they were given out of a love for souls, then they were responded to well. If not, well then.......

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

Ewwwww.... wow .... good....now my follow-up - do ultra libs let everybody in and send nobody to hell.......


neither one makes sense to me Rev...

I don't think crakjak would consider himself ultraliberal (or even liberal) but he would certainly let everyone into Heaven - even after some of them spent a period of time in Hell (and I don't mean the city in Michigan).

[berkeley]

This applies to some... not most.. not sure if many.. but SOME!!

Matt 23
4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
(ridiculous dress code)
---
13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

---

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. (emphasis on the minor things, i.e. dress code, neglect real issues)

26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. (need to prioritize things, ex; clean the heart before the outward man)

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

---

[IAintMovin]

Originally Posted by Chan

I don't think crakjak would consider himself ultraliberal (or even liberal) but he would certainly let everyone into Heaven - even after some of them spent a period of time in Hell (and I don't mean the city in Michigan).

Ya lost me here Chancellor, but I too want no one to go to hell. (Not talking about the place I visited in the Grand Caymens either)

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by revrandy

Now that will getcher' attention...

False doctrine keeps people from heaven whether it comes from a UC, UL, Mod Lib, Con, etc etc

Is there false doctrine in the UC camp more than others?

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

At our retreat this weekend past...Brother Seagraves said the way we win souls is to answer a hurting persons needs and hurts...by showing them love. If they see love in us they see the love of Jesus, that may lead them to church we if can help them see their hunger...thumping a bible and being hard minded and not showing our heart will not draw anyone towards God...that does not mean you have to share their sin, but see the hurts that are keeping them in the pain and sin of living lost...

I disagree with this one. Sinners don't know they even have a need for the Savior (the only need that eternally matters). Further, it's not our job to draw people toward God: Jesus said that no one would come to Him unless the FATHER draws them. We show them the love of God by showing them their sinful state and their need for salvation and then warning them of the danger they face if they do not heed God's command for everyone to repent. We show them the love of God by showing them that they are enemies of God and communicating to them God's offer of reconciliation.

http://wayofthemaster.com/

http://www.lastdaysministries.org/ar...thegospel.html

http://www.lastdaysministries.org/ar...hegospel2.html

http://www.lastdaysministries.org/ar...onversion.html

http://www.lastdaysministries.org/ar...utresults.html

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

Ya lost me here Chancellor, but I too want no one to go to hell. (Not talking about the place I visited in the Grand Caymens either)

Crakjak believes in the doctrine of universal salvation.

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

I can belive this brother, but you are talking about people who have come to hear...I am talking about a one on one interaction...I am talking about making a path to church...if I can make a connection God will do the work...I am talking about making friends so that they see the love of God in me!

Originally Posted by Margies3

RevRandy, I've heard sermons like this. If they were preached by someone who said these things because they truly LOVED the souls present and feared for their eternal damnation, then the sermon was usually well received.

I've also heard sermons like this preached by preachers who just wanted to "lower the boom". Not out of love. Just out a sense that they said it because they could get away with it. Those sermons almost always fell flat. People didn't respond at all, or if they did it was little. And often, not a lasting change.

The difference was in the attitude in which they were delivered. If they were given out of a love for souls, then they were responded to well. If not, well then.......

Both of you are correct... It is the Spirit and Attitude that Matters..

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

Ewwwww.... wow .... good....now my follow-up - do ultra libs let everybody in and send nobody to hell.......


neither one makes sense to me Rev...

No actually they send more to hell than any conservative ever could. By failing to preach those things that God requires they like the watchman on the wall who fails to sound the warning. The blood of those innocent folks will be on every liberal hand.