Sabbeth Keepers

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I just wanted to know some opinions for and against....

But what does God say? That's all that matters.

[Sister Alvear]

of course what God says matters....lol....we may all see what God says from different eyes...and different understandings...I kindly ask for both sides of the story...I am not debating....

[Aquila]

I'm not against keeping the Sabbath. However, I believe that the Sabbath is kept spiritually, not in accordance to the carnal laws of ancient Israel. The Sabbath is God's "rest". It was a type and shadow of the grace of God, wherein we "rest" from our works and live in accordance to the Spirit. Under grace, the spiritual core of the Sabbath is observed, not a specific day. So, those walking in the Spirit are living in Sabbath daily and may freely choose any calendar day for gathering and worship. Under the Law, the Sabbath was restricted to a single day. Under grace, it is a daily state of being. This understanding is in accordance to love in a love vs. law paradigm. Imagine, if you will, that you only gave devotion to your spouse one day a week, this is Sabbath keeping under the Law. Under grace... we show absolute devotion every single day. As a result, in doing this we not only keep the Sabbath per the Law of God... but we transcend it.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

of course what God says matters....lol....we may all see what God says from different eyes...and different understandings...I kindly ask for both sides of the story...I am not debating....

The way we see it is the sabbath was made before Adam ever left the garden. It was made for man, so it's a blessing and a gift. Keeping sabbath is a way of identifying who you serve - the God of the Bible, who made everything in 6 days and rested the seventh. Jesus kept the sabbath. The apostles kept the sabbath. Early church history shows for hundreds of years Christians kept the sabbath. It was among the churches at Rome and Alexandria that Sunday-keeping and abandonment of the sabbath began, the exact same groups who abandoned Oneness and invented the priesthood, Mary worship, and everything else that became catholicism.

The new testament records only ONE time the church met on the first day of the week, and that was a saturday night teaching session that went to midnight. The next morning Paul left on a journey.

All through the new testament the sabbath is still called the sabbath, decades after Christ rose from the dead.

Hebrews says "sabbath-keeping remains for the people of God".

It's one of the ten commandments. If the fourth commandment is done away with so are the others... which means there is nothing left for anyone to repent of. And that of course is not true. The new covenant, according to Hebrews and Jeremiah, involves God taking his commandments and writing them in our heart.

[mfblume]

Another perspective. Hebrews 4 listed sabbath day and even the entrance into Canaan as TWO FORMS OF REST. But the writer still said there was a REST that God's people never yet enjoyed. In other words, it's not sabbath day nor even entrance into the promised land. It's an eternal rest. We cease from human efforts to sustain a relationship with God and allow the word to remove the unbelief from our hearts like a sword, and enter the most holy place where Jesus is our high priest and sit with him on the mercyseat, kick back, and enjoy HIS SPIRIT WORKING IN OUR LIVES.

It's not a sabbath day but a sabbath LIFESTYLE forevemore. An eternal sabbath that the day and the entrance into Canaan merely foreshadowed.

[mfblume]

Paul, I believe wrote, Hebrews.

Whatever..

He spoke of the Israelites tempting God in the wilderness.

Hebrews 3:8-19 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: (9) When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. (10) Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. (11) So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

He called it an entrance into REST when they would enter Canaan.

(12) Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

He applied their stubborn doubt with the backsliding happening amongst the Hebrew Christians in the church of the first century. As the doubtful Hebrews under Moses failed to enter their REST of Canaan, believers in the church could fail to go all the way God wanted them to go in their Christian lives.

(13) But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. (14) For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

This is a vital point he just wrote. After calling entrance into Canaan a form of REST, he then rephrased it to speak of partaking of Christ. As they could only enter Canaan's rest by faith, we can partake of Christ only by faith.

(15) While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. (16) For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. (17) But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? (18) And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? (19) So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

So, they could not enter CANAAN'S REST due to unbelief. And we won;t partake of Christ by similar unbelief.
[indent]Hebrews 4:1-16 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[indent]

As they were meant to enter Canaan's rest, we are meant to enter a rest as well. Canaan foreshadowed this rest. Unbelief will hinder us as it did them.

(2) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. (3) For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Their GOOD NEWS was entrance into Canaan. OUR GOOD NEWS is partaking of Christ in a rest of some sort. he has not said what it is yet, though.

Then he wrote of the works being finished from the foundation of the world in regards to the rest. That's Genesis. God worked and then RESTED the seventh day.

(4) For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Sabbath day was the FIRST form of rest we read anything about in the bible.

But there are more forms of rest. We already read about entrance into Canaan being one of them.

(5) And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

He reverted back to the CANAAN form of rest in this verse above.

Psalms 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.

So, after TWO forms of rest were mentioned by the Bible and used in Hebrews 4, we continue...

(6) Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Since Psalm 95 was written thousands of years after Genesis 1 and the sabbath day rest, and God said there was STILL a rest to enter aside from the sabbath day rest, He meant there is a form of rest nobody entered into ever since Sabbath day was instituted. That tells me that sabbath day is not the rest. He's saying that after people kept sabbath day, God still had a REST for man. God would not have said "if they shall enter my rest," if sabbath day was the final resting place. lol

Canaan was another rest!

And when Psalm 95 mentioned Canaan's rest, God spoke to people in David's day when David wrote Psalm 95 saying the people in THAT DAY better ensure they do not harden their hearts as they did generations earlier in the Exodus when they failed to enter Canaan. In other words, Paul said, when David wrote Psalm 95, not only had there been a previous rest of a sabbath day, but ANOTHER REST of Canaan, and yet the people to whom David wrote were STILL TO ENTER A THIRD REST. It wasn't Canaan, since Israel had long since entered Canaan. It wasn't sabbath day, since sabbath day was being kept for generations by the time David wrote.

(7) Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Paul repeated the thought. Long after sabbath day in Genesis, and long after Canaan, THERE WAS A DAY LIMITED AGAIN!

(8) For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

JESUS here is JOSHUA. JOSHUA is the Hebrew form of JESUS. When Joshua finally led Israel into Canaan, that was not the be all and end all of REST. David STILL said there remained a REST! Long after Joshua. David would not have stated there remained a rest if Joshua's entrance into Canaan solved the rest problem.

(9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. (10) For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. (11) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Here it is! In the New Testament Book of Hebrews we STILL READ of a plea to enter the rest. It's not a sabbath DAY any more than entering Canaan was a sabbath DAY. Both the sabbath day and the entrance to Canaan typify a SPIRITUAL REST. We cease from our labours. Not physical works like a work week demands for a rest on the seventh day, any more than entrance into Canaan was the rest we are intended to enter.

The Hebrew people in the church were reverting back to LAW KEEPING. Salvation by works. They were not resting in the work of the cross.

(12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (13) Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. (14) Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. (15) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (16) Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

After speaking of entrance INTO A DAY in Genesis, and ENTRANCE INTO CANAAN in Exodus, and even entrance into a third form of rest in Psalm 95, Hebrews 4 says there is ENTRANCE INTO THE THRONEROOM OF GOD.

As we continue in Hebrews, this REST we ENTER is mentioned again and again.

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Hebrews 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 6:19-20 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; (20) Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Hebrews 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Hebrews 10:19-22 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (20) By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; (21) And having an high priest over the house of God; (22) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

THAT IS THE REST! Hebrews 4 ends off with it and it is repeated evermore in the rest of the book!

It's not a sabbath day any more than it's entrance into Canaan. it is entrance into the rest of the HOLIEST OF HOLIES. David called it ABIDING IN THE SHADOW OF THE ALMIGHTY!

Psalms 91:1-5 He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. (2) I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. (3) Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. (4) He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. (5) Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

It is a REST from the wearisome worry and fret of troubles in life, where we try our best to recover ourselves instead of RESTING In the holiest of holies -- a secret place because only God is in there and opened it up only to the believers. But so few enter because they work and fret and toil, and never learn to rest in GOD!

THAT is what the sabbath day foreshadowed. It is what entrance into Canaan foreshdaowed. We cease not from picking up sticks on a sabbath day, but from fighting our own battles in our own fleshly power, instead of entering the holiest and sitting with God on the mercyseat in heavenly places and seeing God intervene by faith!

[Aquila]

Esaias, here's another perspective...

Originally Posted by Esaias

The way we see it is the sabbath was made before Adam ever left the garden. It was made for man, so it's a blessing and a gift. Keeping sabbath is a way of identifying who you serve - the God of the Bible, who made everything in 6 days and rested the seventh. Jesus kept the sabbath.

As was Jewish custom.

The apostles kept the sabbath.

Again, as was customary. They also went to temple and taught in synagogues until they were cast out.

Early church history shows for hundreds of years Christians kept the sabbath.

Yes, as most early Christians were of Jewish heritage.

It was among the churches at Rome and Alexandria that Sunday-keeping and abandonment of the sabbath began, the exact same groups who abandoned Oneness and invented the priesthood, Mary worship, and everything else that became catholicism.

Ah... Gentiles. Like me.

When Gentiles were confronted with keeping the Law of Circumcision and other Laws from the OT the church stipulated four simple admonishments:

1.) Avoid meats sacrificed to idols.
2.) Avoid blood.
3.) Avoid meats that have been strangled.
4.) Avoid sexual immorality.

Nowhere is keeping the Sabbath listed, as it relates to Gentiles. In fact, there was the promise of no other burden. Gentile Christians began to abandon the Sabbath and meet on the Lord's Day to distinguish themselves from Judaizing Christianity. Now, under the New Covenant... it really doesn't matter what day in which you wish to gather and worship. So, be at peace. This is walking in the Spirit.

Oh... and remember... some leading Oneness theologians (Modalists) ranted and raged against Trinitarianism and Arianism within the regions of Rome and Alexandria.

The new testament records only ONE time the church met on the first day of the week, and that was a saturday night teaching session that went to midnight. The next morning Paul left on a journey.

Ah, but it appears to have been common practice among believers in Corinth to gather together on the first day of the week. Paul admonishes them to set aside their offerings in support of other churches on this day.

All through the new testament the sabbath is still called the sabbath, decades after Christ rose from the dead.

Ah... but within context.

Hebrews says "sabbath-keeping remains for the people of God".

Context. It reads...

Hebrews 4:9-10 (ESV)
9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

Do we only rest from the works of the Law or enter God's rest on the 7th day? No! God forbid. The Sabbath rest is within the true and spiritual Sabbath... this New Covenant. Those who enter into the New Covenant Church enter into this Sabbath rest... a rest that has endured for over 2,000 years now, day in and day out. A superior Sabbath that the 7th day Sabbath was only a type and shadow of.

It's one of the ten commandments. If the fourth commandment is done away with so are the others... which means there is nothing left for anyone to repent of. And that of course is not true. The new covenant, according to Hebrews and Jeremiah, involves God taking his commandments and writing them in our heart.

It is written...

Romans 13:8-10 (ESV)
8 Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Notice... Paul references the Ten Commandments. Paul then goes on to state that these, and any other commandment, are fulfilled in one single commandment to live by... love.

Love fulfills the Law. Law would have us enter God's rest only one day in 7. Love would have us enter God's rest every day. Imagine only showing your wife that you loved her one day a week! Under grace, we are free from the Law... and we show God that we love Him 24/7! Love is therefore an infinitely superior law to live by.

Consider the Covenants:

1.) Edenic Covenant - Dispensation of Innocence
2.) Ademic Covenant - Dispensation of Conscience
3.) Noahic Covenant - Dispensation of Government
4.) Abrahamic Covenant - Dispensation of Patriarchs
5.) Mosaic Covenant - Dispensation of Law for Israel
6.) Davidic Covenant - Dispensation of Messianic Promise (Upon the Throne of David)
7.) Messianic Covenant/Covenant of Christ's Blood - Dispensation of Grace (Sabbath Dispensation/Church Age)

We are in the 7th Covenantal Day (Sabbath Dispensation)... and have been since the cross. It is entered through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This Sabbath will remain until Christ returns. Then we shall see the Advent of the Kingdom. Those who do not enter into this covenant of grace... are violating this Sabbath rest and will not enter into the Kingdom.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Another perspective. Hebrews 4 listed sabbath day and even the entrance into Canaan as TWO FORMS OF REST. But the writer still said there was a REST that God's people never yet enjoyed. In other words, it's not sabbath day nor even entrance into the promised land. It's an eternal rest. We cease from human efforts to sustain a relationship with God and allow the word to remove the unbelief from our hearts like a sword, and enter the most holy place where Jesus is our high priest and sit with him on the mercyseat, kick back, and enjoy HIS SPIRIT WORKING IN OUR LIVES.

It's not a sabbath day but a sabbath LIFESTYLE forevemore. An eternal sabbath that the day and the entrance into Canaan merely foreshadowed.

The moment you switch your services to any day, except Sunday, I will take your arguments more seriously.

otherwise you are just following the Catholic Church teaching of keeping the Sun-day.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The moment you switch your services to any day, except Sunday, I will take your arguments more seriously.

otherwise you are just following the Catholic Church teaching of keeping the Sun-day.

I got my beliefs from the bible itself. Nobody else.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I got my beliefs from the bible itself. Nobody else.

OK where in the Bible does it say to have church services on Sunday??