Dialogue with a Muslim

[aegsm76]

"I'm pretty sure Hitler would enthusiastically agree with him, "

shaz - c'mon man!

[shazeep]

well, that was unkind, but it makes the point.
You might read Rise of the Fourth Reich for more; or even just postulate who is meant by Fourth Reich.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i could give you prolly 100 Scriptures that will tell you that Jesus is not God, many of them quotes by Christ Himself.

I'd like to see just one Scripture that says 'Jesus is not God'.

Mike entered into the convo on somewhat false premises, imo, as he believes that he has all of the truth, and needs to impart it to others; the very most foolish position to assume, i believe.

Just like you. You believe you have the truth and are going to pluck the splinters out of poor deluded Mike's eye. You constantly berate others for thinking they might know the truth, as if YOU knew the truth. And thereby condemn yourself. Hypocritical.

The exact opposite of approaching as a servant. Why have you sought someone out, to pull a splinter from their eye? There is only one answer, and it is not the answer you want to hear.

A servant of God will be busy trying to tell all men everywhere to repent and believe the Gospel. A servant of satan would balk at that.

I know this sounds harsh, but you have to admit that this is the position we are led into, from birth. "We have the truth, and need no longer search, because we are saved, and they are lost. All the proof you need is to bob your head enthusiastically at this Scripture, and you are saved. And don't be asking any uncomfortable questions, either."

What nonsense. 'You have to admit...' No we don't! Why? What possible proof can you possibly have that anyone 'has to admit' this balderdash you are pushing? YOU think YOU have the truth, and are gonna straighten everybody out. YOU say if anyone thinks they have the truth they are in error, are sinning, are not right with God. So then you once again condemn yourself. The very thing you judge everyone else for, you are guilty of. Repeatedly. Over and over. With no repentance whatsoever.

He was not curious about Islam, nor was he interested in finding where he might agree with a Muslim, but where he might disagree with him.

What arrogance! Like you and your little crystal ball can see into the hearts of men you don't like? Talk about pride. Why should anyone be curious about Islam and 'find where he might agree with a Muslim'? Why is that a good thing? Who says so? YOU? So you judge everyone by your made up standards of righteousness? And then condemn others who don't buy your baloney? Wow.

I'm pretty sure Hitler would enthusiastically agree with him, so to me it becomes a question of what ends are you trying to achieve?

First of all, the ends brother Blume is trying to achieve is to show YOU that Muslims do not believe what YOU SAY they believe. And he proved they do not believe what YOU CLAIM they believe, by asking a Muslim. That makes you either ignorant or a liar. Either you really have no clue what Muslims believe about Christ or Christians... or you do and you are just lying to troll this forum.

Second of all, what horse puckey is this 'I'm pretty sure Hitler would enthusiastically agree with him'???? Agree with who? Brother Blume? What do you know about Hitler anyway? Nothing, I'm sure. It looks to me like you get your knowledge from googling internet memes alone. Hitler was no apostolic, neither was he a Christian, neither was he a Muslim. Man, you just open your mouth and eliminate all doubt in anyone's minds that you are clueless.

You have reached a conclusion, and seek to divide yourself from the person who has not reached the same conclusion,

Just like you do, practically every thread and every post. By the way, if person A believe X, and person B believes Y, then the division is already here, nobody has to 'seek' any division whatsoever. Can you not comprehend the basics of simple reality? If one person is a Buddhist, and another person is not, then they are DIFFERENT. I mean (wait for it...) DUH!!!!

so that you may justify that you are right, and they are wrong; you then become "saved," while they are obviously "lost." This is not love, nor is it humility. It is "typical."

What's typical is your ignorance. You MUST have been public schooled, there is no other explanation. Either that, or you are just trolling. Is anyone right? Is anyone wrong? Obviously Shazeep is right, and everybody else is wrong, that much you believe. Okay, then it is possible for somebody to be right, and somebody else to disagree with that somebody, and THEREFORE BE WRONG.

'Saved' and 'lost' are simple - salvation IS being a follower of Jesus Christ, as explained and taught by Christ and his apostles. Lost IS anything other than that.

2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

THE BIBLE teaches that those who do not know God and who do not OBEY THE GOSPEL OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST will be destroyed in flaming fire and vengeance. PERIOD. Don't like it? Fine, argue with GOD. WE however have heard that exact same message, and we run to Christ, as He commands, to be covered and hidden and kept from the Second Death and the Wrath of Almighty YHVH. Anyone who REFUSES TO FLEE TO CHRIST is 'lost', they are according to Jesus Himself 'condemned ALREADY.'

Now, i do not mean this to imply that anyone is wrong in some other particulars, even Mike. But i will say that, using your model, you will be led into doing just what you have done, which is to fall into a sect that reflects your heart, just like everyone else does, and then spend the rest of your life convinced, and justifying, rather than humble, and seeking God. All done looking for truth, iow, because of course you have "found it."

Nonsense. According to you, the only truth in this creation is that Bible believing Christians are wrong and in darkness. All your blubbering on reduces down to that one thing: Christians like brother Blume and the rest of us who actually read and believe and seek to live by the Bible are ignorant, lost, in darkness, wrong, missing it, blah blah blah.

'fall into a sect'... LOL!!!

Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

HERESY - 'sect':

Green's Literal Version:

Act 24:14 But I confess this to you that according to the Way, which they say is a sect, so I worship the ancestral God believing all things according to that having been written in the Law and the Prophets,

And starting some new sect whenever you fall out with your leadership over some irrelevant detail. The old sect then becomes the new "lost," and you now have to get baptized "the right way."

You are so ignorant it blows my mind. You have no clue what you are babbling on about. The only 'sect' of any concern is God's 'sect', the one started by Jesus Christ and built by his apostles. ANYONE can join THAT 'sect' and be saved, they just have to follow WHAT IS WRITTEN. ANYONE who fails to FOLLOW WHAT IS WRITTEN is OUTSIDE.

"God is the head of Christ." Exploring whether Christ is God or not God then becomes irrelevant, as anyone can see by asking "what endpoint do you seek here?" and realizing that the endpoint is division. Scripture will "prove" to anyone that you are lost, in this case. Just my humble opinion.

Your humble opinion is ignorance personified. Exploring whether Christ is God or not then becomes irrelevent... says WHO? On what basis? Oh that's right, on Shazeep's basis. Sorry, the Bible was around LONG before you were, and will be around LONG after you are gone. Excuse us while we listen to the Bible, and put you back on ignore.

[shazeep]

I'd like to see just one Scripture that says 'Jesus is not God'.
i would think "God is the head of Christ" might be pretty conclusive. But didn't Christ call himself "Son of man?" But really, the point might be that even Christians do not agree here, and never will; yet you insist that a Muslim--the original "Protestants"--should?

Just like you. You believe you have the truth...
the difference being that i was asked, here, and Mike was not asked, there.

A servant of God will be busy trying to tell all men everywhere to repent and believe the Gospel. A servant of satan would balk at that.
Many will cry "Lord, Lord." These tell men everywhere those things, too. And yet they might be characterized as "barring the door." How can this be so?

What nonsense. 'You have to admit...' No we don't! Why?
well, i guess you don't have to; you are right. I would say that that is a fair generalization for just about everyone on the planet; "We are special."

What arrogance! Like you and your little crystal ball can see into the hearts of men you don't like?
Men i don't like? You kind of lost me there. I made a self-evident statement; Mike did not go to this site curious about Islam, as a student might. Also evident is that he is not seeking where he might agree with any Muslims; he is seeking for areas of disagreement, which also defines how our sects are formed, which is subtly different from heresy. OP is hardly considered heretical; it is mainstream. "Fundamental."

First of all, the ends brother Blume is trying to achieve is to show YOU that Muslims do not believe what YOU SAY they believe. And he proved they do not believe what YOU CLAIM they believe, by asking a Muslim.
I would say the opposite, with all due respect. The man plainly said that Christ is highly respected, and was to be followed. How a Muslim could even still admit as much, with his olive trees being pulled up by wannabe Jews in bed with wannabe Christians, and his cousin's wedding getting drone-bombed, and his Syrian sister's town getting leveled, i do not understand. Do you? If you put yourself in his place, could you possibly say the same thing? I don't think i could.

Second of all, what horse puckey is this 'I'm pretty sure Hitler would enthusiastically agree with him'???? Agree with who? Brother Blume? What do you know about Hitler anyway? Nothing, I'm sure. It looks to me like you get your knowledge from googling internet memes alone. Hitler was no apostolic, neither was he a Christian...
Well, Hitler claimed to be a Christian, apparently quite enthusiastically; a Fundie, if the rumors are true. But you are right again, i really don't know.

Can you not comprehend the basics of simple reality? If one person is a Buddhist, and another person is not, then they are DIFFERENT. I mean (wait for it...) DUH!!!!
And yet in all fairness, aren't they much more alike than they are different, if all that separates them is religion? Wouldn't "hypocrites" or "not hypocrites" be a more natural spiritual divide?

'Saved' and 'lost' are simple - salvation IS being a follower of Jesus Christ, as explained and taught by Christ and his apostles. Lost IS anything other than that.
well then, according to my interpretation--which i got from other Christians, it is hardly mine alone--you are lost and going to hell if you don't change your mind, Esaias, and i can demonstrate this with Scripture. I will help you as much as i can. PM me if you would like to pray about it

[shazeep]

oh; if i hated Mike, the last thing i would do is answer him. I was not, ever, even going to post in here, just because i did not agree with his premise; which i do not consider any kind of reflection on him, it is just an area where we disagree.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What nonsense. What arrogance! your baloney? you either ignorant or a liar. Either you really have no clue. you are clueless. DUH!!!! What's typical is your ignorance. You MUST have been public schooled, Nonsense. You are so ignorant it blows my mind. You have no clue what you are babbling on about. Your humble opinion is ignorance personified.

yet you claim you have Christ, and someone else does not? ok, well, you have my other cheek sir.

[shazeep]

"You are lost and going to hell if you don't change your mind, and i can demonstrate this with Scripture."

I have posted this countless times here, and have yet to be asked to prove it. Not one time. It would be my first question.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by shazeep

If Christ is God, and you are the body of Christ, then you are God, too. Of course no one wants to say this out loud, but it is meant to be inferred, and it is reinforced by the premises stated above.

That is absurd. When we say He is God we do not refer to his body. You really don't understand basic theology, which is actually quite common for a Muslim

BTW Muslims deny also the most basic and unquestioned Biblical claim, that Jesus is the Son of God. There is no ambiguity there

[Praxeas]

BTW Hitler was a great admirer of Islam and Muhammad

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

If Christ is God, and you are the body of Christ, then you are God, too. Of course no one wants to say this out loud, but it is meant to be inferred, and it is reinforced by the premises stated above.

Wow. That's like saying Eve was bone of Adam's bones and flesh of his flesh -- AKA the body of Adam -- and was therefore Adam!

Being the body is a marriage indication and also why Christ is called head of the church, as there is one head to a body. It speaks of UNION as in marriage.

1 Corinthians 6:15-17 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. (16) What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. (17) But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Notice the association of being HIS BODY and WIFE.