Everybody must have a pastor?

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by mfblume

More correctly everyone needs a covering and authority they're under and submit themselves beneath.

Isa 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

.........

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by CC1

Nothing grander than circular logic! I guess we are to ignore Ephesians 4:11-13 because the founding fathers of the church in Acts did not list who their pastor was.

Lets just ignore the whole fact that they were the pioneer of the church establishing the first christian churches.

If the proposition is that because Peter and Paul didn't have pastors we don't nned them then that is absurd.

Where is the circular logic here?

I think you are just wanting to stir the pot, lol...

There are plenty of scriptures to support plural leadership, as noted above.

By all means, post the scriptures that support a one man pastor leadership.

[houston]

Paul submitted to the Apostles? BAHAHAHAHA! Ok.

That rebel, Paul. Calling out his godly pastor Peter for being
a Jew around Jews and a gentile around gentiles.

Paul that stated of his meeting with the Apostles that those
who should have added to his stature added nothing...


Carry on...

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by CC1

Nothing grander than circular logic! I guess we are to ignore Ephesians 4:11-13 because the founding fathers of the church in Acts did not list who their pastor was.

Lets just ignore the whole fact that they were the pioneer of the church establishing the first christian churches.

If the proposition is that because Peter and Paul didn't have pastors we don't nned them then that is absurd.

Mrs CC must have misplaced your TUMS again.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ..."

Jesus Christ is man's covering (head), and His word (scriptures) our authority.
No man is called to be another man's covering, but a servant. If we serve a
man (have a man for our covering), we actually are serving the Tabernacle.

When we make the Lord our covering, we will serve Him, that is the ONE
that is IN the Tabernacle!

I cannot disagree more. We MUST have a man over us as a covering. Even Moses had groups allotted under him to take care of people for counsel.

Exo 18:21-22 KJV Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: (22) And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by houston

Paul submitted to the Apostles? BAHAHAHAHA! Ok.

That rebel, Paul. Calling out his godly pastor Peter for being
a Jew around Jews and a gentile around gentiles.

Paul that stated of his meeting with the Apostles that those
who should have added to his stature added nothing...


Carry on...

Nope Paul submitted himself.

They submitted ONE TO ANOTHER. Peter submitted to Paul in that gentile issue, and Paul submitted to Peter when he compared notes of his revelation.

Gal 1:18 KJV Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.

Gal 2:2 KJV And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Gal 2:9 KJV And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Paul had the submissiveness to ensure he receive their approval, for they walked with the Lord.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Isa 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

.........

That is taken out of context! A human church member as an elder is a covering of the Spirit of God.

If that were the case, how come Moses told people on God's side to come to him, when the people worshiped the golden calf?? Why did Jesus honour the faith of the centurion who said BECAUSE he was a man under authority he himself had authority?

Mat 8:9-10 KJV For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it. (10) When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

The whole principle was perfect in the kingdom.

Why did Paul submit to the apostles when he first received revelation to get their right hand of fellowship?

[mfblume]

Paul started out with a lack of wisdom and stirred up undue persecution. The apostles talked to him and sent him away for a while to Tarsus. Paul submitted and departed.

Act 9:29-31 KJV And he spake boldly in the name of the Lord Jesus, and disputed against the Grecians: but they went about to slay him. (30) Which when the brethren knew, they brought him down to Caesarea, and sent him forth to Tarsus. (31) Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

Study it out. After they sent him away, the comfort of the Holy Ghost hit the place. He actually had to step aside for a while.

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I cannot disagree more. (1) We MUST have a man over us as a covering. (2)
Even Moses had groups allotted under him to take care of people for counsel.
(3) Exo 18:21-22 KJV Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: (22) And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee.

,,,or disagree with scripture...!

(1) We (the Church) DO have a man over us: "...the man Christ Jesus."

(2) Moses is the Old Testament parallel of the New Testament Christ. The
two biggest differences between Moses and the other prophets are these:
(a) the prophecy that another prophet would come, who would be like Moses;
and (b) the Spirit that Moses received was imparted to another seventy.

(3) No other prophet but Moses has that testimony, though many were
used in signs and wonders.
Jesus also chose another seventy whom he sent out to preach; additionally,
Jesus established the Ministry "...for the perfecting of the saints, etc. ..."
Contrary to popular opinion (by many pastors), no other man TODAY can be
compared or act as a figure or type of Jesus Christ.

Only Jesus is our head, and only his words (scriptures) are our authority.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

,,,or disagree with scripture...!

(1) We (the Church) DO have a man over us: "...the man Christ Jesus."

(2) Moses is the Old Testament parallel of the New Testament Christ. The
two biggest differences between Moses and the other prophets are these:
(a) the prophecy that another prophet would come, who would be like Moses;
and (b) the Spirit that Moses received was imparted to another seventy.

(3) No other prophet but Moses has that testimony, though many were
used in signs and wonders.
Jesus also chose another seventy whom he sent out to preach; additionally,
Jesus established the Ministry "...for the perfecting of the saints, etc. ..."
Contrary to popular opinion (by many pastors), no other man TODAY can be
compared or act as a figure or type of Jesus Christ.

Only Jesus is our head, and only his words (scriptures) are our authority.

The scriptures teach submission to each other as Peter did to Paul and Paul did to Peter. Moses standing as Christ had men organized beneath him over others.