God can prevent himself from being omniscient....

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Foreknowledge implies he even knows our decisions.

He foreknew those who would love Him, and he determined those specific people go through a process. That is the true sense of predestination. Not predestination of every individual.

But the real question is "HOW" does God foreknow...by knowing all possibilities or by predetermining all things?


Did you read those 2 articles?

Many passages of Scripture depict God as foreknowing and/or predetermining certain things about the future. But there are also many passages that depict the future is open (not determined) and depict God as knowing it as a realm partly comprised of possibilities. Some examples of these Scriptures include: The Lord frequently changes his mind in the light of changing circumstances, or as a result of prayer (Exod. 32:14; Num. 14:12–20; Deut. 9:13–14, 18–20, 25; 1 Sam. 2:27–36; 2 Kings 20:1–7; 1 Chron. 21:15; Jer. 26:19; Ezek. 20:5–22; Amos 7:1–6; Jonah 1:2; 3:2, 4–10). At other times he explicitly states that he will change his mind if circumstances change (Jer. 18:7–11; 26:2–3; Ezek. 33:13–15). This willingness to change is portrayed as one of God’s attributes of greatness (Joel 2:13–14; Jonah 4:2). Sometimes God expresses regret and disappointment over how things turned out—sometimes even including the results of his own will. (Gen. 6:5–6; 1 Sam. 15:10, 35; Ezek. 22:29–31). At other times he tells us that he is surprised at how things turned out because he expected a different outcome (Isa. 5:3–7; Jer. 3:67; 19–20). The Lord frequently tests his people to find out whether they’ll remain faithful to him (Gen. 22:12; Exod. 16:4; Deut. 8:2; 13:1–3; Judges 2:20–3:5; 2 Chron. 32:31). The Lord sometimes asks non-rhetorical questions about the future (Num. 14:11; Hos. 8:5) and speaks to people in terms of what may or may not happen (Exod. 3:18–4:9; 13:17; Jer. 38:17–18, 20–21, 23; Ezek. 12:1–3). The Lord frequently speaks of the future in terms of what may and may not come to pass (Ex.4:1-7; Ex. 13:17; Ezek 12:3).

- See more at: http://reknew.org/2007/12/response-t....yalGjvds.dpuf

[mizpeh]

God perfectly knows from all time what will be, what would be, and what may be. He sovereignly sets parameters for all three categories. His knowledge of what might occur leaves him no less prepared for the future than his knowledge of determined aspects of creation. Because he is infinitely intelligent, he does not need to focus his attention on a limited set of possibilities as we do. In other words, he is able to attend to each one of a trillion billion possibilities, as though it was the only possibility he had to consider. He is infinitely attentive to each and every one. Hence, whatever possibility ends up coming to pass, we may say that from all eternity God was preparing for just this possibility, as though it were the only possibility that could ever possibly occur.

- See more at: http://reknew.org/2015/08/the-god-wh....wOGORwhp.dpuf

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

If God stopped being omniscient, He would not be God!

You don't understand. not knowing God's plan.
God KNEW man would sin, but His plan was for us to LOVE HIM
as He loves us: so He created man, to express His love in us!
God did not repent of His plan: it hurt Him that so many would
not heed His call. It hurt Him that man was hurting himself so
much. But it was the END of the matter that kept Him fulfilling
His love! You see, God also SAW that there would be those who
believed and obeyed.

Have you not read: "...who for the joy that was set before him
endured the cross, despising the shame..."What joy, you ask?
The joy of seeing us BELIEVE AND OBEY his will! Or have you
not understood that in the Garden of Gethsemane, when he was
pouring out his soul to the Father, Jesus asked for the cup to be
taken out of the way. But the Father allowed him a glimpse PAST
the suffering and shame of Calvary; even to the very day of our
redemption...and to our place with him in glory: and Jesus then
rejoiced saying:

"...nevertheless, not my will, but Thine, be done."

God doesn't have to prevent himself from being omniscient to not know what someone might do in a given situation. He could know some things as possibilities...every possibility that could come to pass. There are times in the bible when God thought "surely they will do this" and they do something else!

[mfblume]

I am concerned about topics like this because it puts God beneath a mircroscope, so who do we think we are? lol And most of all it doesn't affect how we grow spiritually. It's more like brain candy than anything beneficial.

[deacon blues]

I trust God. I don't have to understand everything.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I trust God. I don't have to understand everything.

Exactly. Amen.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I am concerned about topics like this because it puts God beneath a mircroscope, so who do we think we are? lol And most of all it doesn't affect how we grow spiritually. It's more like brain candy than anything beneficial.

I disagree.

This topic addresses really important questions that people ask when bad things happen to them. Depending on you view of God's foreknowledge, predestination, etc, if you hold to a view that God has a blueprint view of the future in which he meticulously controls everything, then if your child is murdered, it was God's will for them to be murdered, or the Holocaust was God's will, etc. This view harmonizes with the concept of free will and God limiting his control of his creation so that we can make choices that either or agree or disagree with God's will for our lives. So when beings with free will (human, angelic, demonic) make choices that affect our lives in a bad way, we don't have to blame God or believe that God has anything to do with the troubles that come our way. But we know that God can take those things that others meant for evil and turn them around for our God.

In the blueprint view of God's foreknowledge, prayer doesn't really change God mind. But we read in the Bible that intercessory prayer changes outcomes. Prayer really affects God. It puts the onus on us to pray otherwise things won't get done in the kingdom that God wants done.
http://reknew.org/2015/05/does-praye...change-things/

I want to know the deep things of God. I don't believe Open Theism has God in a box or explains everything about God's foreknowledge comprehensively but I like it better than other explanations.

Does it help with spiritual growth and our becoming more and more like Jesus? I think it does.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I disagree.

This topic addresses really important questions that people ask when bad things happen to them. Depending on you view of God's foreknowledge, predestination, etc, if you hold to a view that God has a blueprint view of the future in which he meticulously controls everything, then if your child is murdered, it was God's will for them to be murdered, or the Holocaust was God's will, etc. This view harmonizes with the concept of free will and God limiting his control of his creation so that we can make choices that either or agree or disagree with God's will for our lives. So when beings with free will (human, angelic, demonic) make choices that affect our lives in a bad way, we don't have to blame God or believe that God has anything to do with the troubles that come our way. But we know that God can take those things that others meant for evil and turn them around for our God.

In the blueprint view of God's foreknowledge, prayer doesn't really change God mind. But we read in the Bible that intercessory prayer changes outcomes. Prayer really affects God. It puts the onus on us to pray otherwise things won't get done in the kingdom that God wants done.
http://reknew.org/2015/05/does-praye...change-things/

I want to know the deep things of God. I don't believe Open Theism has God in a box or explains everything about God's foreknowledge comprehensively but I like it better than other explanations.

Does it help with spiritual growth and our becoming more and more like Jesus? I think it does.

Not if we simply trust God. The deep things of God aren't issues the bible doesn't explain.

[mizpeh]

Aren't you curious?

Job wanted to know "why". He felt he was being unjustly punished by God, but he wasn't.
Some people (Calvinists) have turned God into a monster through their understanding of God's omniscience instead of the loving God exhibited through Jesus.

Certainly some things are difficult to understand but that doesn't mean we stop trying to understand and chalk it up to mystery. Yet, I know that are scriptures that teach there are certain things that are unknowable, passed our understanding to know, and some things God simply does not reveal. I'm okay with that because, like you, I trust God. I know that God is good. I know that he loves me. I trust in who he is...his character. But I still want to know him more.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Aren't you curious?

Job wanted to know "why". He felt he was being unjustly punished by God, but he wasn't.
Some people (Calvinists) have turned God into a monster through their understanding of God's omniscience instead of the loving God exhibited through Jesus.

Certainly some things are difficult to understand but that doesn't mean we stop trying to understand and chalk it up to mystery. Yet, I know that are scriptures that teach there are certain things that are unknowable, passed our understanding to know, and some things God simply does not reveal. I'm okay with that because, like you, I trust God. I know that God is good. I know that he loves me. I trust in who he is...his character. But I still want to know him more.

I'm not curious about things the bible didn't take time to explain. i was at one time. but i was snapped about that. God spoke to me one day to stop wasting my time. the bible was particular about what we should know and focus on. again, the deep things of God are what the bible focused on. what we find in chapter after chapter is the need to be led by his Spirit, deny the flesh, and increase our awareness of who we are in him. There's too much of a job to do those things than to take time to check into things God never felt he should talk to us about.

my opinion.