Would you sit under Eli?

[houston]

Kinda different scenario.

Originally Posted by n david

No. If the Pastor of a church I attended allowed his sons to sin openly in the church... absolutely not.

[n david]

Originally Posted by houston

Kinda different scenario.

How's it a different scenario.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by houston

Would you sit under a pastor like Eli? Maybe his children aren't wicked. Perhaps there are other issues. What if there were rumors of a shady past and indiscretions committed by your pastor? Some time passes and then your pastor promotes a repentant adulterer and former pastor to the ministry? Which causes you to think maybe the rumors of your pastor were not rumors.


Do you stay with Eli or find another ministry to sit under? Many people will vote with their feet. Others may try to stay and find a solution. Maybe the solution is to vote Eli out of the pastorate.

Decisions, decisions.

I would more than likely vote with my feet. At this point in life I don't need the drama trying to topple one regime for another.

Perhaps, maybe, just what if the pastor's ministry is necessary for the raising up of a Samuel. What if you're Samuel!?

What if you are Hanah and you pray and fast till judgement falls.

[consapente89]

Every minister SHOULD have elders in his life who are able to deal with his discrepancies. However, elders only have as much authority as they are given. If I was a non ministering saint in a church, I'm not sure how I would handle it. I certainly do not believe in an attempt to overthrow the pastor. As Amanah said, some may chose to quietly wait and pray while judgment looms. Others may seek out new leadership. In cases that involve immorality or doctrinal compromise, I don't think either position would be wrong. I would confront doctrinal compromise, however, in a respectful face to face manner. I could certainly not subject my family to compromised preaching and teaching.

[n david]

Originally Posted by houston

What if there were rumors of a shady past and indiscretions committed by your pastor? Some time passes and then your pastor promotes a repentant adulterer and former pastor to the ministry? Which causes you to think maybe the rumors of your pastor were not rumors.

Anyone can create a rumor and accusation. There need be no evidence or witnesses or any truth to the rumor or accusation. It could be completely made up or a simple misunderstanding.

Because of this, I don't put much stock into "rumors." I would require witnesses or proof before it would cause me to do something like leave that church.

[houston]

You are ok with restoring repentant adulterers to the ministry?

Originally Posted by n david

Anyone can create a rumor and accusation. There need be no evidence or witnesses or any truth to the rumor or accusation. It could be completely made up or a simple misunderstanding.

Because of this, I don't put much stock into "rumors." I would require witnesses or proof before it would cause me to do something like leave that church.

[n david]

Originally Posted by houston

You are ok with restoring repentant adulterers to the ministry?

From 1 Timothy 3, to be a Bishop (Pastor) or Deacon the man must be blameless, ie: "innocent, guiltless, above reproach, irreproachable, unimpeachable, in the clear, exemplary, perfect, virtuous, pure, impeccable, faultless." Using this, ANY sin will exclude a man from being a Bishop or Deacon, not just sexual sin. I don't understand why people argue over whether sexual sins are worse than others. Sin is sin, no one worse than another.

If we were to strictly follow 1 Timothy 3, a lot of Pastors and ministers would be excluded from being in the ministry.

That said, I believe a person may be restored in ministry after having committed sin.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by n david

Anyone can create a rumor and accusation. There need be no evidence or witnesses or any truth to the rumor or accusation. It could be completely made up or a simple misunderstanding.

Because of this, I don't put much stock into "rumors." I would require witnesses or proof before it would cause me to do something like leave that church.

Biblicaly accusations must be accompanied by two or three witnesses.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

Biblicaly accusations must be accompanied by two or three witnesses.

This is true. Unfortunately, most church rumors don't follow the Biblical requirement for accusations.

[derAlte]

There is much necessary additional detail needed for this hypothetical question to be answered accurately.

If said Eli analog is a humble, deeply spiritual man, with a loving, compassionate nature who has faithfully and sacrificially served his flock, and is one who genuinely loves people and desires to bring them back to a place of victory and usefulness to the kingdom, then I would give him the benefit of the doubt regarding the former serial adulterer. God is able to help folks overcome. If the pastor had similar issues in his youth, perhaps these taught him compassion in his old age. I’d keep my mouth shut and watch to see how events progress.

However, if said Eli analog is a man with an insatiable lust for power with a long history of stridently proclaiming certain viewpoints of righteousness but then negates them because of a long history of vicious attempts to destroy or drive away those who disagree with him, then that’s another story. If Eli is a person who is bitter over a past loss of power, I would suspect that said former serial adulterer may be someone of the same spirit. I would suspect said Eli analog is looking for an ally. Birds of a feather, flock together, the old saying says. I suspect said Eli analog would have squashed the serial adulterer when he had power, not even remotely considering that he was a damaged and hurting human being. I would suspect, that for some reason, he now thinks the serial adulterer may be someone useful to his agenda. Said serial adulterer should realize that he will be abandoned the moment he is no longer useful.

If I was a member of his church, I’d be out of there in a swift New York minute. I'd be looking for a genuine Apostolic pastor who believes I John 4:7-8 and lives it. At my advanced age, I’ve seen too many phony leaders in the gall of bitterness who claim to believe the message of Jesus Christ, but are in truth walking in the flesh as they try to dominate others to satisfy their pathological lust to rule.

Having said all that, I’ve probably totally misjudged this hypothetical scenario.