Do OPs have a grace problem?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

The faithfulness of Abraham.

Gen 22:16 and said, "By myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son,
Gen 22:17 I will surely bless you, and I will surely multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and as the sand that is on the seashore. And your offspring shall possess the gate of his enemies,
Gen 22:18 and in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed, because you have obeyed my voice."

Gen 26:4 I will multiply your offspring as the stars of heaven and will give to your offspring all these lands. And in your offspring all the nations of the earth shall be blessed,
Gen 26:5 because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."




How much sin does it takes to not enter heaven?




Joh 14:15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Joh 14:24 Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. And the word that you hear is not mine but the Father's who sent me.


Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
Joh 15:8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
Joh 15:12 "This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.
Joh 15:15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you.
Joh 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Joh 15:17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.


1Jn 1:6 If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.


1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment that you had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have heard.
1Jn 2:8 At the same time, it is a new commandment that I am writing to you, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.
1Jn 2:9 Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness.
1Jn 2:10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling.


Eze 18:20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Eze 18:21 "But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.
Eze 18:22 None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.
Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord GOD, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?
Eze 18:24 But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die.
Eze 18:25 "Yet you say, 'The way of the Lord is not just.' Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just?
Eze 18:26 When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.
Eze 18:27 Again, when a wicked person turns away from the wickedness he has committed and does what is just and right, he shall save his life.
Eze 18:28 Because he considered and turned away from all the transgressions that he had committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.



Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Mat_22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Will a believer be lost for any sin/imperfection in their life?

[Aquila]

People fail to realize that there is NOTHING we can DO that impresses God. From our fallen state the ONLY thing we can rely on is GRACE.

And interestingly enough... Christianity is the only religion that teaches a God of grace. Every other religion has strict rules (legalism) one must live by to enter "heaven" upon death, or they have a rule of "karma" that determines their well being in the next incarnation.

When we see how accursed we REALLY are in comparison with how HOLY God truly is... we can't help but to fall on our faces realizing that unless He have grace and mercy... we are lost without hope.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Will a believer be lost for any sin/imperfection in their life?

Knowledge is key. What God reveals and led you to do is what is accountable in a strict sense. Ask yourself several things. When you offer up yourself and seek forgiveness is your heart true to God and his commandment? I want you to think about what Matt 5 says.

Mat 5:23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you,
Mat 5:24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

This is a constant theme all throughout scripture Middah Keneged Middah. Measure for measure. Unless you forgive you will not be forgiven. Unless you seek to reconcile yourself your petition cannot be recognized by God without a good conscience. Walk and you receive.... 1 John 1:7 many will strive but few will find it. Many are called few are chosen. In the end most want to minimize God's call and place the many that strive into the gates of heaven because well.... God "loves" and they make his redemption broad practically when it come to being acceptable. That is why you see so many constantly pound NOBODY can be acceptable by anything you do. Then they change what atonement is about and in the end make God's justice toward sin different so the the few are more than the few and tickle the ears of "good" people. Yes you are acceptable accordingto the call you re given and can be. All of it is a matter of context. Zach and Eliz where perfect and blameless. Does that mean they never sinned? No! It means they fulfilled the requirements by faith and with love and got up should they fail. A righteous man falls seven times. He is not righteous when he is down. He is righteous because his faith overcomes his failure to get up due to knowing and relying on the mercy of God. Trusting in him to forgive should he repent.


Just as a persons sins are set aside and not considered so also are our righteous deeds that God has created for us should be turn away back into sin. Ezekial 18

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Will a believer be lost for any sin/imperfection in their life?

Yes, but...I think Aquila's answer must be taken into consideration, here-you are lost, but forgiven. A tuff concept to grasp. While 'be ye perfect' must be taken to mean 'it will happen,' if you get me--Word not returning void--I think we tend as humans to see this as an all-or-nothing finish, when it's maybe just all. Shining brighter until that day.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Aquila

People fail to realize that there is NOTHING we can DO that impresses God. From our fallen state the ONLY thing we can rely on is GRACE.

Amen. That just is not the track to be on, imo. Trust that God delights in your unique way of producing fruit, however. Hi, guys!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Aquila

People fail to realize that there is NOTHING we can DO that impresses God. From our fallen state the ONLY thing we can rely on is GRACE.

And interestingly enough... Christianity is the only religion that teaches a God of grace. Every other religion has strict rules (legalism) one must live by to enter "heaven" upon death, or they have a rule of "karma" that determines their well being in the next incarnation.

When we see how accursed we REALLY are in comparison with how HOLY God truly is... we can't help but to fall on our faces realizing that unless He have grace and mercy... we are lost without hope.

And baptism does not impress God nor do we get baptized thinking He is impressed. He demands it and we obey, as simple as that.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

People fail to realize that there is NOTHING we can DO that impresses God. From our fallen state the ONLY thing we can rely on is GRACE.

And interestingly enough... Christianity is the only religion that teaches a God of grace. Every other religion has strict rules (legalism) one must live by to enter "heaven" upon death, or they have a rule of "karma" that determines their well being in the next incarnation.

When we see how accursed we REALLY are in comparison with how HOLY God truly is... we can't help but to fall on our faces realizing that unless He have grace and mercy... we are lost without hope.

God EXPECTS his people to be pleasing in his sight.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask , we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1 John 3:22

He will NOT even be with you unless you obey him.

9 Those things, which ye have both learned , and received , and heard , and seen in me, do : and the God of peace shall be with you.

If you don't keep his commandments you will not abide in his love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 John 15:10

If Chrisianity teaches one must keep commandments to enter Heaven there is a reason for it.

Why?

Because Christ taught it. His apostles taught it. The Church is to teach it.

11 He that is unjust , let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy , let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold , I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be . 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev. 22:11-14

Jesus is straight forward about it. Yet the cunning serpent from the beginning tries to cast doubt on the truth and confuse people so they will turn their backs on God and he might rule over them.

He wants all Gods elect children to think the commands of Jesus are GRIEVOUS.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Tho you would teach its by the power of the Spirit one overcomes all day long the teachers of destruction will never hear it. They will accuse you of self righteousness every time. They don't understand how the favor/grace of God causes men to OBEY the truth.

The goal of the spirit of this age is that a Christian would fall. His doctrine is to confuse then conquer.

Christ taught "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect". Matt. 5:48

The enemy goes all out to make you and I believe Christ meant anything except what he said!

[Aquila]

Michael... you say that we must do what is pleasing in God's sight and obey His commandments.

Please present them for us all to see.

Otherwise... you've just engaged in religious chest beating.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Yes, but...I think Aquila's answer must be taken into consideration, here-you are lost, but forgiven. A tuff concept to grasp. While 'be ye perfect' must be taken to mean 'it will happen,' if you get me--Word not returning void--I think we tend as humans to see this as an all-or-nothing finish, when it's maybe just all. Shining brighter until that day.

In our quest to "be perfect"... we are broken upon the rocks of the law. And as a response... we cry out to be made perfect... IN HIM.

Colossians 2:10a
And ye are complete in him,


Galatians 3:2-11
King James Version (KJV)
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

I am made complete and perfect... in Him. And this is received by faith, not works.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And baptism does not impress God nor do we get baptized thinking He is impressed. He demands it and we obey, as simple as that.

No one said we aren't to be baptized. In fact, I see baptism as part of repentance. When one repents of sin they turn from it... TO Christ. Repent and be baptized, calling upon the name. Repentance is an about face that lands in the waters of baptism.

If a believer refuses to be water baptized... they are in rebellion. I believe that God will have patience and deal with the new convert who is confused as He draws them into obedience in accordance to their submission. But eventually, absolute refusal to be water baptized will result in one being cut off. Not because they didn't get wet... but because they are not surrendering self to the will of the Spirit.