Love One Another and the Cross

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Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, i know, you have already made clear that because i don't agree with you that i am possessed, etc. Gotcha. Preaching "God is love" has never been popular, especially with Protestant clergy.

I never said you have to agree with me. And God is love is indeed the truth. But I guess if you can't accept "Deny Son and be lost", then certainly none of my straightforward statements will be understood either. Explains a lot, actually.

Without the cross for remission of sins, God is love is something you'll surely twist. Yep, he's love to such an extent you don't need to accept his word! Right on!

I think I also now realize that if you can make John's word murky and unclear, you're already on the road to twisting everyone's words. Generally speaking you can't properly represent anyone's word. So insistence to go by what I actually said is a waste if you'd do this to a much higher word like God's. If the bible doesn't agree with YOU, then it's wrong. That's what they usually say about Paul, since he doesn't agree with their words.

[shazeep]

well, i hope you'll come to see that your innuendo and personal attacks are part and parcel with the theology. John, and even Paul, will lead one to Love if they will be led. What gain is there if you prove to yourself that accepting and understanding the Cross is paramount, and hatred and war are thereby justified? Even tacitly?

We term something "hollow" when it does not ring true. So, your arguments might be great, but if it falls apart when you vibrate it a little, use better materials! Like i said, you don't have to abandon your religious belief in the Cross, at least not all at once--but it will become more and more hollow sounding, the more you witness its fruit.

Find love, the hard thing--"the Lamb slain from the foundation" reflects this--and then you will reflect the Cross. And all that "you have to say it like we do or you are possessed," and "you will know them by how they argue Scripture" will drop away.

[shazeep]

"Until you practice surrender, the spiritual dimension is something you read about, talk about, get excited about, write books about, think about, believe in — or don’t, as the case may be. It makes no difference. Not until you surrender does it become a living reality in your life." ET


https://www.google.com/search?q=Unti...m=122&ie=UTF-8

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i hope you'll come to see that your innuendo and personal attacks are part and parcel with the theology. John, and even Paul, will lead one to Love if they will be led. What gain is there if you prove to yourself that accepting and understanding the Cross is paramount, and hatred and war are thereby justified? Even tacitly?

We term something "hollow" when it does not ring true. So, your arguments might be great, but if it falls apart when you vibrate it a little, use better materials! Like i said, you don't have to abandon your religious belief in the Cross, at least not all at once--but it will become more and more hollow sounding, the more you witness its fruit.

Find love, the hard thing--"the Lamb slain from the foundation" reflects this--and then you will reflect the Cross. And all that "you have to say it like we do or you are possessed," and "you will know them by how they argue Scripture" will drop away.

Like I said, stating facts is not demeaning. It only seems so when others think one is their enemy just because thy tell the truth.

And your words sound darker the more you encourage losing the cross.

Be nice to chat with you if you could stop twisting my words. I said nothing that I did due to you disagreeing with me. I said it because you tactfully refused to deal with blood atonement in every way possible. Never once addressing it at my repeated requests. So twist away. I expect it now.

John flatly stated denial of the Son makes one an antichrist. I never said it. But you'll say I hate because I repeated what John said.

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1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

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1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

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Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Your focus is no where near this. And it's the greatest love ever known. All love stems from here.

[shazeep]

The point is that one who is crucified to the world would not exhibit superiority and condemnation, but humility and acceptance. If the fruit is bad, the tree is bad. This is how the Good Samaritan becomes "lost," and "love your neighbor" is following the law. From there it is a short hop from "All Muslims are Lost" to "it's ok to drone-bomb civilian populations indiscriminately, in Christ's Name, because after all, we are Christians."

So actually that is exactly where my focus is. Personally i can't imagine a better illumination of "Many will cry 'Lord, Lord'" than you have given. I don't mean that this speaks to your personal faith however. But all one need do is realize what model one crying "Lord, Lord" would be teaching.

[mfblume]

You really believe nothing a person says when you touch on an issue and the the person responds explaining whether that is true or not.

Originally Posted by shazeep

The point is that one who is crucified to the world would not exhibit superiority and condemnation, but humility and acceptance.

It is not superiority to simply relate what the bible says.

It is not condemnation to simply relate what the bible says.

But, you twist words of the Bible from God that say denial of the Son makes one antichrist, so why would you not twist lesser words as those of myself?

If the fruit is bad, the tree is bad. This is how the Good Samaritan becomes "lost,"

You lie flatly here since I distinctly said over and over again the good samaritan is not lost.

and "love your neighbor" is following the law.

Not it is not following the law. Another lie!

I distinctly said it does not save. And I said Law noted to love our neighbour, and there are many things from Law we are intended to do. Like that. But I am only saying it does not save. And the reason I mentioned that it is part of Law is to show nothing in Law saves, so that does not save either.

How can you honestly live with yourself lying and twisting things after they've been explained? Talk about the need to love your neighbour! Wow.

And if you had read my posts about the purpose of Law and how its works could save us if we did not have sin, you would recall I quoted 1 Tim 1:5 that stated the goal of the law was love from a pure heart, but the Law could not accomplish that. Then Paul said in verse 14 grace was abundant with those very accomplishments, thereby proving we are meant to love our neighbour under both grace and law. But you feel no ill at all in distinctly lying about what I said about those issues.

From there it is a short hop from "All Muslims are Lost" to "it's ok to drone-bomb civilian populations indiscriminately, in Christ's Name, because after all, we are Christians."

So actually that is exactly where my focus is. Personally i can't imagine a better illumination of "Many will cry 'Lord, Lord'" than you have given. I don't mean that this speaks to your personal faith however. But all one need do is realize what model one crying "Lord, Lord" would be teaching.

You twist and ignore statements that show the things you say here are lies. Enough is enough. Should have abandoned this dialogue with you days and days ago when you first lied about what I believe.

I have never taken something you said you believed abandon replied you did not believe it. Why you would do this over and over again with me is what I call bad fruit.

And there's a place for liars.

I'll chat with others or just share thoughts on the cross. But I am done with liars.