born of water

[Sean]

Some folks think that Jesus was telling Nicodemus(an elderly man) that he had to be be born of his mother to be saved.
This idea is moronic, realizing the essentiality of water baptism by the Apostles to be saved.

There is NO new birth unless the old man is dead and buried.....

Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (if we are NOT baptized, we are not baptized into His death)

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.(if we are not baptized, we are not buried with Him)

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:(if we are not baptized, we are not planted together with him, therefore not able to be resurrected together in His likeness)

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.(if we are not baptized, we are not crucified with Him, therefore we are serving sin)

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.(if we are not baptized, we are not dead, and therefore bound by sin)

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

Some folks think that Jesus was telling Nicodemus(an elderly man) that he had to be be born of his mother to be saved.
This idea is moronic, realizing the essentiality of water baptism by the Apostles to be saved.

There is NO new birth unless the old man is dead and buried.....

Romans 6
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (if we are NOT baptized, we are not baptized into His death)

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.(if we are not baptized, we are not buried with Him)

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:(if we are not baptized, we are not planted together with him, therefore not able to be resurrected together in His likeness)

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.(if we are not baptized, we are not crucified with Him, therefore we are serving sin)

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.(if we are not baptized, we are not dead, and therefore bound by sin)

I agree with most of what you say here, though I do not believe anything supernatural happens at baptism per say.

On this topic, do you believe that certain words must be said by the one baptizing in order for the one receiving baptism to be truly considered baptized? You seem to be avoiding this question as I have asked it many times.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I agree with most of what you say here, though I do not believe anything supernatural happens at baptism per say.

On this topic, do you believe that certain words must be said by the one baptizing in order for the one receiving baptism to be truly considered baptized? You seem to be avoiding this question as I have asked it many times.

Yes bro., the Name of Jesus must be verbally spoken, using faith in His name to accomplish proper water baptism for the remission of sins.
Without faith involved though, we have no business baptizing or being baptized...

Mark 16:16

16 He that believeth and is baptized(2 ingredients) shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.(obviously not being baptized because of unbelief)

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Sean

Yes bro., the Name of Jesus must be verbally spoken, using faith in His name to accomplish proper water baptism for the remission of sins.
Without faith involved though, we have no business baptizing or being baptized...

Mark 16:16

16 He that believeth and is baptized(2 ingredients) shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.(obviously not being baptized because of unbelief)

So if the one being baptized has faith in his name but the baptizer does not say the right words, the person being baptized is not forgiven by God?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Originalist

So if the one being baptized has faith in his name but the baptizer does not say the right words, the person being baptized is not forgiven by God?

Why would somebody go through all the trouble of baptizing somebody and not believe?

The act of baptism itself is an act of faith!!!

[Sean]

The problem folks have with relying on man to speak the name of Jesus, is also a problem having men actually baptize them.

They are equally a problem.

Why dont you address that also?

[Sean]

Lets just let them baptize themselves and speak the name of Jesus over themselves.

Then we really need not rely on the preacher!!!

[Sean]

If someone is baptizing a person, and cannot even say Jesus' name, they have no scruples and should not be baptizing.
They would be nearly an imbecile to not be able to say Jesus.

[Sean]

BTW...I think I told you this before, but I have a friend in prison through ministry that baptized himself in Jesus name in there. I personally think thats legit.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

BTW...I think I told you this before, but I have a friend in prison through ministry that baptized himself in Jesus name in there. I personally think thats legit.

I cannot say for sure what God will do with such a person but it almost sounds like a person saving himself.