Saved Without A Pastor??

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

So, by your own post here it could be a messenger and NOT a pastor?

Would that be accurate?

Please answer this question!

Is there a 50% chance that you are right?

And a 50% chance that you are wrong?

Would this be fair to say?

Is 50% close enough to establish doctrine?

This is not horseshoes or hand grenades we're talking about here!

Line upon line, line upon line, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, here a little, there a little, here a little . . .

Brother, if you are right, you are AT BEST hoping that you have a little, much less a little more. There is no line upon line, except in your imagination. The precept is fantasy. Come on back to reality. You'll sleep better at night. You are wanting this to be true SO badly that you are willing to settle for a 50% chance of a hint of being right?

And of course there is the following . . .

Are ALL messengers pastors?

Or were nearly ALL messengers NOT pastors?

Tell the truth, and stay in the church.

Then there is this . . .

Should I call you on the fact that my Strongs Concordance defines angel as used in this passage as a messenger; esp. an "angel" ; by implication a pastor:- angel, messenger.

You are very close to being deceptive here. You really seem to want to add to the book of Revelation. Be careful!

Lol you seem to want to take away from it, and you are trying to wiggle your way out. So now your saying he wrote it to the guy doing the announcements huh? I wonder if after that he announced the bake sale?

[Old Paths]

OH dear, my heads hurting.

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Oh, you make it sound so good. What is missing? Scripture.

Have you once given scripture that will stand alone and show what you are saying?

Who has quoted more relevant scripture here?

Me? Or the two of you?

It must be frustrating to have absolutely NO scripture to say what you are touting. Not one passage that includes the word pastor.

Meanwhile I have given multiple examples of the churches being overseen by a plurality of elders. Have I not?

Please answer the question.

I must have missed something is this a debate on if the angel was a person or angelic being? Or is the question did every church have only one person as the leader? What am I missing here?

[Amanah]

it seems it could be an angel or a person

Lexicon :: Strong's G32 - aggelos

ἄγγελος,, ὁ,
1. a messenger, envoy, one who is sent: Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24, 27; Luke 9:52; Mark 1:2; James 2:25. (From Homer down.)
2. In the Scriptures, both of the Old Testament and of the New Testament, one of that host of heavenly spirits that, according alike to Jewish and Christian opinion, wait upon the monarch of the universe, and are sent by him to earth, now to execute his purposes (Matthew 4:6, 11; Matthew 28:2; Mark 1:13; Luke 16:22; Luke 22:43 (L brackets WH reject the passage); Acts 7:35;; Galatians 3:19, cf. Hebrews 1:14), now to make them known to men (Luke 1:11, 26; Luke 2:9ff; Acts 10:3; Acts 27:23;

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Lol you seem to want to take away from it, and you are trying to wiggle your way out. So now your saying he wrote it to the guy doing the announcements huh? I wonder if after that he announced the bake sale?

You are wanting to pretend that I am subtracting from the scripture? Show me one word I have left out. You are making this up.

In regards to the bold statement above, I would like you to show where I said this. If you can't show it, I am requesting an apology for your FALSE accusation.

Bake sale? Some body is getting desparate!

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Amanah

it seems it could be an angel or a person

Lexicon :: Strong's G32 - aggelos

ἄγγελος,, ὁ,
1. a messenger, envoy, one who is sent: Matthew 11:10; Luke 7:24, 27; Luke 9:52; Mark 1:2; James 2:25. (From Homer down.)
2. In the Scriptures, both of the Old Testament and of the New Testament, one of that host of heavenly spirits that, according alike to Jewish and Christian opinion, wait upon the monarch of the universe, and are sent by him to earth, now to execute his purposes (Matthew 4:6, 11; Matthew 28:2; Mark 1:13; Luke 16:22; Luke 22:43 (L brackets WH reject the passage); Acts 7:35;; Galatians 3:19, cf. Hebrews 1:14), now to make them known to men (Luke 1:11, 26; Luke 2:9ff; Acts 10:3; Acts 27:23;

Read chapter 2:18-24 on verse 24 its says "BUT UNTO YOU I SAY, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden." Read the first part and then verse 24. Strongs says "a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication a pastor." It does say the angel of meaning that they had a place of headship. What do you think this definitely is not a angelic being

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Apostolic1ness

I must have missed something is this a debate on if the angel was a person or angelic being? Or is the question did every church have only one person as the leader? What am I missing here?

I think both are relevant to the debate.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

OH dear, my heads hurting.

Not like her's

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I think both are relevant to the debate.

Ok could you answer my probability question?

[Apostolic1ness]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I think both are relevant to the debate.

According to Paul, elders were to be ordained in every city by Titus.