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03-14-2013, 07:57 PM
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Repent and believe the Gospel!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,090
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
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Originally Posted by CC1
All of this doctrinal point is moving this thread off point. The real pertinent question is will Jason actually get off his rear end and visit the UPC church he has started a threat about possibly joining?
At this point the thread seems very premature and more of a tease than anything.
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It seems to me as if Jason does not agree with a big part of the doctrine.
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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03-14-2013, 08:13 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by navygoat1998
It seems to me as if Jason does not agree with a big part of the doctrine.
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Yeah, but they have really good fellowship!
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-14-2013, 08:21 PM
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Repent and believe the Gospel!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,090
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Yeah, but they have really good fellowship!
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Its only good till they find out that he might not totally ring kissing agree with the "truth" of the doctrine. Then its bible study time with the pastor.....or maybe a repeat of Into His marvelous light 
I am speaking from experience 
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
Last edited by navygoat1998; 03-14-2013 at 08:23 PM.
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03-14-2013, 08:25 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 11,467
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
All of this doctrinal point is moving this thread off point. The real pertinent question is will Jason actually get off his rear end and visit the UPC church he has started a threat about possibly joining?
At this point the thread seems very premature and more of a tease than anything.
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Nothing wrong with discussing it.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
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03-14-2013, 08:27 PM
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Posts: 16,848
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
Nothing wrong with discussing it.
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Of course. However it appears he may not have been sincere in the premise of his thread but just wanting to be controversial. Time will tell.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-14-2013, 09:51 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Of course. However it appears he may not have been sincere in the premise of his thread but just wanting to be controversial. Time will tell.
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I was completely serious in starting this thread. I stated from the first post that I didn't believe some of these doctrines. I do still hold to a oneness view of God, and water baptism in Jesus name. I love holiness living, and modesty (but I believe that the Spirit will lead in these areas, not a pastor-the pastors responsibility is to give principles from the Word of God, not laws).
I also said from the beginning that if I went back it would have to be a moderate church, not a uc church.
I've enjoyed the thread, the first several pages dealt with the emotional side of leaving/returning and now these recent pages are getting into the doctrinal side. Two sides of the same coin.
The posse is beginning to circle the wagons.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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03-14-2013, 10:20 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
my friend you are breaking a cardinal rule by not using the whole context of scripture.
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Whoa...slow down Bro. Lets go through this calmly. First off, who is breaking cardinal rules in scriptural interpretation? OPs are notorious for their complete disregard/ignorance of scripture. We need look no further than pants on women/uncut hair doctrines to see that. Pastoral authority is another doctrine, foot washing, tithing, etc. But since we're on tongues and initial evidence, lets discuss that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
Acts 10 clarifies the point. EVERYONE who recieved the HG did so the same way. If I am writing a story, and I refer to an event multiple times I will not give all the detail every single time. Luke did not give every detail every time. BUT He gave plenty of detail and used very clear words.
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Once upon a time there was a certain Jehovahs Witness who regularly came around. Because I was willing to talk to him about scripture, he thought I was open to converting to JW. One day he gave me a brown book called "Reasoning from the Scriptures" (which I still have), the book told the JWs how to answer various challenges they would encounter when knocking doors. Thats what I am reminded of talking to you guys. Its so predictible its laughable. The bolded is the standard oneness answer when someone brings up the fact that most conversions in Acts do not mention tongues. Not only do they not mention tongues, they don't even hint or imply tongues. The whole doctrine is built on two foundations-silence and ignorance (of hermenutics).
I will answer your actual argument in my next post. I just want to note that from the other side of the issue, it reminds of how the JWs try to answer for their beliefs. I don't mean just using the basis for an argument, I mean word for word pre packaged answers.
But don't worry. I'm not going to suggest that salvation is taught in Romans at this time. But if I did I bet this would be the answer....
"The book of Romans doesn't teach salvation. It was written to already saved people. We must rightly divide the word. You can't teach salvation from Romans."
OPs wish the book of Romans would go away, like Luther wished James would.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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03-14-2013, 10:30 PM
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Saved by Grace
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Decatur, TX
Posts: 5,247
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferd
my friend you are breaking a cardinal rule by not using the whole context of scripture. Acts 10 clarifies the point. EVERYONE who recieved the HG did so the same way. If I am writing a story, and I refer to an event multiple times I will not give all the detail every single time. Luke did not give every detail every time. BUT He gave plenty of detail and used very clear words.
Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pressing-On
Thank you, good grief, how obvious is that?  |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Thank you Ferd. It is so simple.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revrandy
Ask yourself why Mary the Mother of Jesus needed to be in the Upper Room...
If anyone would have a pass to get into heaven it would have been her...
But yet she and Jesus's own brothers were in the Upper Room and had to be
filled with the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues...
It is the way God chose to signal to mankind that He indeed was dwelling within them!...
You can't argue with the Bible...  |
So the premise is that Acts 10 proves that tongues is proof of the initial evidence doctrine. "Good grief how obvious is that. It is so simple. You can't argue with the Bible."
Well, I do agree with Randy's sentiment, but ironically enough, it is oneness pentecostals who DO argue with the Bible.
I was going to answer the Acts 10 argument in my next post. But I'm going to start a fresh post. So I can copy and past the scripture, and help you guys out.
__________________
"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
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03-14-2013, 10:40 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,600
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
After I read most of this thread, I found the many interpretations by different people of the same Bible scriptures to be confusion.
God is not the author of confusion.
I'm just waiting to see who the first person is to say that their interpretation is the correct one and all others are wrong and hell bound.
When one makes the statement "you are in rebellion" when it comes to hair and clothing ...I want to know just what someone is in rebellion of?
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
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03-14-2013, 10:43 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC
Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady?
After I read most of this thread, I found the many interpretations by different people of the same Bible scriptures to be confusion.
God is not the author of confusion.
I'm just waiting to see who the first person is to say that their interpretation is the correct one and all others are wrong and hell bound.
When one makes the statement "you are in rebellion" when it comes to hair and clothing ...I want to know just what someone is in rebellion of?
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YOU are in rebellion for questioning the doctrines presented by everybody on this thread. The bible says rebellions is as the sin of witchcraft so, presto, you are a witch!!!! (I thought it was time for some good old fashioned theology)
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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