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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
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EB, these are good questions. I didn't have the time or energy to devote to them that I felt was justified, so I took a little break. Let me see if I can do them justice.
Every man as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; . . .
What does your heart tell you to give? The context here is the offering for the poor saints at Jerusalem. They were enduring a famine. Paul was rounding up aid for them, most likely food, finances, clothing, and help of whatever description that people felt on their heart.
9 For as touching the ministering to
the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
I realize that we use this verse to support giving to the church, and it can be used properly if the context is noted. To say that this was giving to a corporate church would be out of context. In my mind this would be the sort of giving that should take place as an effort to help someone that has been victim of a natural disaster, (Hurricane Harvey?). I believe the example here is one of loving your fellow church family, and putting that love to work to provide them with help.
not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Not to to begrudge the one given to, or to be sorry that you felt compelled to give and not because it was necessary, because God loves those that give cheerfully. Sometimes you just know. To me it means that you never regret that you gave, you believe that you made a real difference, and you look back on the giving with satisfaction. You mentioned that it means hilarious giving, maybe so. I'm just sharing what it means to me.
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
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Once again for context, this is evidently the same collection for the saints. Here is the verse that supplies that context.
16 Now concerning
the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
This is saying that you should store your offering up. It implies regular, methodical, and purposeful, planned giving, to the church at Jerusalem, and by principle all members of the body of Christ.
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
I understand that is pretty much everyone's experience. It is the human experience.
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I think you're right. I don't believe that is necessarily a bad thing. It is more blessed to give than to receive. Would you rather be in a position to give meaningfully to someone else, or in the position to need meaningful help from someone else?
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Yes, we know, you hate the number 10 when combined with percentage.  |
I kind of take the approach of hate the sin (false doctrine), love the sinner (false indoctrinator).
[QUOTE=Evang.Benincasa;1527844] My attitude concerning my demeanor with this discussion is mainly because I don't believe you really understand what you are talking about. [/QUOTE/]
You are probably correct about this. I am trying to learn though. If you think I'm ignorant now, you should have known me earlier. I mean, I have been blessed to learn so much, But you're right, I have a long way to go. Pray for me if you feel led to, and teach me if it's even possible. I know I try your patience and cause your blood pressure to spike. Sorry about that.
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Which I mean no offense by making this statement. You have shown me that you have no idea about tithing concerning any other ancient society other than the Hebrews.
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Brother, believe me I take no offense. Really, I don't. We may get a little overly passionate at times, but when the dust settles, I respect you, and I want to hear your opinion. You have a wisdom about you that is kind of roguish, but it is wisdom, and I recognize it as such. I really don't want to engage others in debate that believe exactly what I believe. Someone once said something like, "If we believe exactly the same thing, one of us is not necessary".
I think that Apostolics feel uncomfortable with anyone that is slightly different in belief, appearance, or behavior. I have even thought about starting a thread about it.
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
It also looks like you feel the New Testament Bible (as we have it today) was available to Jesus Christ and His followers?
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Not true. I understand that they didn't have the NT. I may not be quite as ignorant as you give me credit for. However, we do have it, and we should use it to our full advantage.
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
The ancient Hebrews were walking around with silver quarters and gold Krugerrands, and livestock weren't on the list of traded commodities. Melchizedek and Abraham was a one shot deal, Jacob promise to tithe was a one shot deal, so primitive tithing were anomalies.
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Brother, it bothers me when preachers want to come at me with scripture (sharper than a two-edged sword), and they want me to greet them with a glass of sweet tea. If you pull out the sword, you should expect someone to defend with a sword in return. Why would that be a bad thing? If you don't want a challenge, don't issue a challenge. A soft answer turneth away wrath, but grievous words stir up anger.
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
Paul going through a whole chapter explaining on ministerial support is reduced to, how you feel on a certain day? Also, if you have extra in your bank account you may toss in another sawbuck. So much for the widow and her mite, or the woman baking a cake for the prophet before her starving family gets to eat. Anyway, please, please I ask for your forgiveness in advance for my zeal, I'll forgive you for your's.  |
Brother, there really is nothing to forgive. I admire your zeal. I expect it from you. Your kind of like having a pet porcupine. You are interesting, but I expect to get stuck. It may hurt sometimes, but it's all worthwhile. Now if I didn't expect it, I might get my feelings hurt. I'm glad you forgive me, I really appreciate it. I may be a little tougher on you than I will be on others, but it is only because I think you can handle it. I really believe controversy, and even heated debate are way underappreciated. They can be a wonderful thing, if they are used in a productive way.
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Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa
No, I believe no one ever needs to know that. Also envelopes with your name on them aren't necessary. I don't believe that people need to know how much you give. When I was in the world before church I had a friend who gave me a pair of boots. I would always be told that he gave me those boots. One night in the bar, I took the boots off and placed them on top of the bar, and rode home in my socks. Sadly, sometimes you not only get the gift, but the gift giver. that's why no one was to sound a trumpet when the offerings were made. So, no, I wouldn't ever want to know what you do with YOUR belongings. Peter made sure he told Ananias and Sapphira that the property was already their's, they owned it. They had no need to lie to the Holy Ghost about the amount. It wasn't ten percent, they were supposed to give a freewill offering of a 100% like everyone else. They could of told Peter that they chose to only give so much, honestly, and I personally believe their outcome would of been different. Yet, money makes people funny, especially when you are a full time preacher raising children and driving all over the United States. Or taking care of a church family never asking for anything.
Also you know something? When you are rich, everyone wants to give you things, that's so crazy. But when you are broker then Job's house cat, no one wants to know you.  |
Bingo. Well said. If you really knew how much I agree with this you would be shocked.
Keep up the good work brother. Maybe . . . never mind. Just be yourself. Nobody else is nearly as qualified.
God bless you and yours.
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