Charismatic Apostolic

[Sister Alvear]

Without HIS grace we cannot be perfect...

[Sister Alvear]

The Apostle Paul teaches from experience the struggle with sin (Romans chapters 5-6) and the desire to live a life that pleases God. He admits that even in his maturity that a constant "tug of war" exist between his nature of sin, and his status of being a "slave to Christ".

[Sept5SavedTeen]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Once we had Mr. Perfect at our church in Brazil...He really worked hard building churches, visiting the backlands and all kinds of great and noble things. But Mr. Perfect where ever he went had to quote scriptures and tell everybody how to be perfect...in time Mr. Perfect instead of friends made enemies for where ever he visited he gave long biblical sermons on how to dress...and on and on...
He would even take pictures of things less than perfect and bring them to me to tell me how so and so dresses or lived...
He sent out all kinds of Bible studies with lists of scriptures...
He told how we should be completely dressed before coming out of the bathrooms, what clothes people should wear to bed...and on and on...On several occasions I tried to talk to him about his PERFECT message and finding fault...

He could have passed the test at most of the ultra con's churches in flying colors...but I knew somewhere along his perfect journey with his perfect family that something would happen...
One day...he fell into sin with another PERFECT sister...It was a long journey...and all I heard was...good enough for him...
He had made so many enemies with his perfect scriptures that he had forgotten love and mercy...
I was in the meeting...a preacher's meeting...maybe a 100 or so preachers present waiting for him to turn his card in...

He stood up said a few words...handed me his card...

I was the only one that wept...when he walked out the door the others sighed relief and some even made jokes of things he had said in his perfect messages...wondering how perfect he was in the motel with a married lady...

I wept and still weep today for his soul...

We have a perfect God...a perfect example but dear one don't become to critical of those that have not reached your level...
I see myself as a climber on life's journey, a warrior in a battle field, a Christian in an arena...I have had my share of imperfect moments...days weeks and months....

I have trembled in fear when I should have been strong, my knees have buckled more times than one, I have fell in the mud fighting just a whole lot of times...BUI I press on to the prize...I see it not so distant anymore...I see it closer...My eyes are on HIM the author and finisher of our faith...

Dear ones....Judge me with mercy...

Dress standards is not what I want perfected in the Body of Christ. Mr. Perfect should have known he had no right to dictate how modesty was observed, he only had the right to preach that the people seek to obtain a testimony of modesty for themselves. I may personally believe certain dress standard distinctives for men and women, but the only ones that I can dictate those to will be my future wife (should the LORD so bless) and future children. These hypocritical "perfects" as you call them go about making these extra-biblical rules and putting laws on people that they themselves can't bear, and they end up falling. I do desire to be perfect, but it won't come by me putting people in bondage or going out of the authority I have in Scripture. The only one I can currently make standards for, as of now, are myself, and myself is all I can handle !

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

[Sister Alvear]

Alex. I used that for an example...we can become hooked on any message and begin to judge people...his problem was how people should dress...there have been others that have had other things they got so spiritual about that they were the only ones that were right...
What doeth the Lord require of thee was asked by the prophet of old...go find what he said son...

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Once we had Mr. Perfect at our church in Brazil...He really worked hard building churches, visiting the backlands and all kinds of great and noble things. But Mr. Perfect where ever he went had to quote scriptures and tell everybody how to be perfect...in time Mr. Perfect instead of friends made enemies for where ever he visited he gave long biblical sermons on how to dress...and on and on...
He would even take pictures of things less than perfect and bring them to me to tell me how so and so dresses or lived...
He sent out all kinds of Bible studies with lists of scriptures...
He told how we should be completely dressed before coming out of the bathrooms, what clothes people should wear to bed...and on and on...
On several occasions I tried to talk to him about his PERFECT message and finding fault...

He could have passed the test at most of the ultra con's churches in flying colors...but I knew somewhere along his perfect journey with his perfect family that something would happen...
One day...he fell into sin with another PERFECT sister...It was a long journey...and all I heard was...good enough for him...
He had made so many enemies with his perfect scriptures that he had forgotten love and mercy...
I was in the meeting...a preacher's meeting...maybe a 100 or so preachers present waiting for him to turn his card in...

He stood up said a few words...handed me his card...

I was the only one that wept...when he walked out the door the others sighed relief and some even made jokes of things he had said in his perfect messages...wondering how perfect he was in the motel with a married lady...

I wept and still weep today for his soul...

We have a perfect God...a perfect example but dear one don't become to critical of those that have not reached your level...
I see myself as a climber on life's journey, a warrior in a battle field, a Christian in an arena...I have had my share of imperfect moments...days weeks and months....

I have trembled in fear when I should have been strong, my knees have buckled more times than one, I have fell in the mud fighting just a whole lot of times...BUI I press on to the prize...I see it not so distant anymore...I see it closer...My eyes are on HIM the author and finisher of our faith...

Dear ones....Judge me with mercy...

Great Post Sis. A, scripture tells us that we should always consider others better than ourselves, even when one falls it should not always be the end of the story. If the body of Christ truly is attached to its head, love and mercy should prevail.

[Sister Alvear]

You know friend if people could just mature and realize we all need each other...

[Jack Shephard]

Wow. Interesting topic here. Not going to take the time to read all the posts I do not have enough time. The issue is not if the HG can fall in a church where there is women with cut hair and such. The issue is how it falls. In common OP churches if falls similar at times. Whether it is in a slow service or a fast service. The same will be said fo the charasmatic churches. There is a culture in each church and each church is different. The HG is the HG whether on trains, plane or buildings. Since we already know that God is not a respector of persons then why wouldn't He pour out the HG in a charasmatic chuch. I have been part of one and the HG is thick there and you could cut it with a knife.

DM said he/she has never felt the HG in a charasmatic church. Though the HG is moving in most churches is might not be moving the way you have always felt it. Remember each church is different so the same HG can and will minister differently in each individual assembly.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Once we had Mr. Perfect at our church in Brazil...He really worked hard building churches, visiting the backlands and all kinds of great and noble things. But Mr. Perfect where ever he went had to quote scriptures and tell everybody how to be perfect...in time Mr. Perfect instead of friends made enemies for where ever he visited he gave long biblical sermons on how to dress...and on and on...
He would even take pictures of things less than perfect and bring them to me to tell me how so and so dresses or lived...
He sent out all kinds of Bible studies with lists of scriptures...
He told how we should be completely dressed before coming out of the bathrooms, what clothes people should wear to bed...and on and on...
On several occasions I tried to talk to him about his PERFECT message and finding fault...

He could have passed the test at most of the ultra con's churches in flying colors...but I knew somewhere along his perfect journey with his perfect family that something would happen...
One day...he fell into sin with another PERFECT sister...It was a long journey...and all I heard was...good enough for him...
He had made so many enemies with his perfect scriptures that he had forgotten love and mercy...
I was in the meeting...a preacher's meeting...maybe a 100 or so preachers present waiting for him to turn his card in...

He stood up said a few words...handed me his card...

I was the only one that wept...when he walked out the door the others sighed relief and some even made jokes of things he had said in his perfect messages...wondering how perfect he was in the motel with a married lady...

I wept and still weep today for his soul...

We have a perfect God...a perfect example but dear one don't become to critical of those that have not reached your level...
I see myself as a climber on life's journey, a warrior in a battle field, a Christian in an arena...I have had my share of imperfect moments...days weeks and months....

I have trembled in fear when I should have been strong, my knees have buckled more times than one, I have fell in the mud fighting just a whole lot of times...BUI I press on to the prize...I see it not so distant anymore...I see it closer...My eyes are on HIM the author and finisher of our faith...

Dear ones....Judge me with mercy...

A sad story indeed. There are no doubt some who understand the truth about perfection that will turn out to be hypocrites and hurt many. However it is almost always the other way around.

There are very, very, few Ministers who teach perfection in the first place. Not counting the Internet I am only aware of three Church groups over 34 years that teach it.

On the other hand the Earth is filled with Preachers who say we cannot consistently be obedient to Jesus Christ. There message penetrates into every facet of society. The Churches are in such pitiful shape its nearly impossible to go to Church. On one hand unscriptural legalism. Men shave that beard! Woman let that hair grow forever! On the other Go to Church, pay tithes, sit in a pew and watch sermons and continue in sin.

I have heard a number of APOSTOLICS say exactly what Baptists say.

"We all sin every day".

This is not Biblical Christianity. The steady preaching against perfection has taken the standard of a Christian so low almost everyone claims to be one and if one attempts to raise the standard back where it belongs (being like Jesus) we hear how judgmental we are being.

The teaching of perfection includes and is actually crowned by the teaching of love. So if one is out there hating people and preaching perfection he disgraces Jesus.

My experience has been that far more who reject Bible perfection are hateful with others than those who are attemting to live it.

[Sister Alvear]

I do not think we sin everyday however if we do not sin it is by the grace of God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

The Apostle Paul teaches from experience the struggle with sin (Romans chapters 5-6) and the desire to live a life that pleases God. He admits that even in his maturity that a constant "tug of war" exist between his nature of sin, and his status of being a "slave to Christ".

This is the doctrinal error that allows the teaching against consistent obedience to flourish.

Paul was NOT speaking in his maturity as a Christian here. Rather it was out of his past experience before the Holy Spirit.

Notice what he says in the beginning of his discourse.

5: For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. Rom. 7:5

This is under the law. Paul gives examples in the chapter how he is not able to do the good but the evil. Verse 5 explains why. He was in the flesh as we all are apart from the Spirit of God.

Notice tho in the next chapter he says those with the Spirit ARE NOT IN THE FLESH!

9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:9

Thus for the Christian the law of sin that binds us is overcome in our bodies because of the Spirit in us.

11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12: Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. Rom. 8:11-12

We are no longer bound to the flesh but to the Spirit.