Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore? - Page 25

johnny44 · #**241** 07-07-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

You are going way over board... First of all like we have said numerous times this is just a " house rule ". like in the church I go to if you want to be in leadership you've got to be clean shaven and if you want to keep your beard then that's fine but you won't be used in our local church. Nobody that I know has ever said this is a heaven or hell issue. It's just a standard.

No wonder He Stands at the door and knocks.Let me in ,let me in.

CAD/JPY · #**242** 07-07-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroJoe

We need to get lost in the presence of God, then we wouldn't have time to squabble over standards...

For myself, it was getting lost in the presence of God and repeatedly asking for wisdom... that brought me to a realization of why I needed to critically examine standards. It wasn't squabbling, I believe it was God leading me to question non-biblical requirements being taught as salvation or adherence to the Faith.

People talk about a Damascus road experience, but like Paul, can you handle it when the revelation goes against most beliefs you were "schooled" to believe?

You might be surprised where the Spirit wants to lead you...

KeptByTheWord · #**243** 07-07-2012, 10:23 AM

Personal holiness of spirit, character and dress using moderation in all things is what should have been adopted years ago by the Pentecostal church fathers. Because if that had been the case, we wouldn't have the legalistic mess that we have now.

I believe God does hold his children who have been delivered from the bondage of sin to a higher standard of living. Our personal holiness should be delivered by the Holy Spirit residing in us, convicting each of us personally of things that draw us away from the Lord.

When one enforces his convictions on another, be it family, friend, or in the ministry, then it becomes legalism, legalistic, and not of God. Paul spoke of this many times in his writings, about not judging another in circumcision, holy days, food, feasts, and so on. Those were the cultural issues of the day. The cultural issues have changed but the principle still remains that Paul taught.

IF the Spirit of the Lord convicts you of something, don't assume that same conviction is now supposed to be found in everyone you come in contact with. But live out your conviction, and be true to it, and honor God with it. This is true holiness.

True personal holiness will never come about because it is demanded.

True personal holiness will be a result of a change brought only because of the residence of the Spirit of Jesus in one's life.

Again, in my opinion, IF the OP churches in the beginning of the outpouring of the Spirit ... had begun to teach personal holiness, instead of making things a "standard", perhaps we would not have the terrible mess that we see today in many (not all) but many OP churches.

I am hoping and praying for a return of a spirit of true personal holiness in the churches, so that the truth and gospel of Christ can grow as never before. BUT the growth of these churches will continue be stunted because of the legalistic ideas that are not of God.

Titus2woman · #**244** 07-07-2012, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acerrak

Christ a jew who was forbidden to trim the edges of his beard walked into your church,He would not be allowed to preach or be used in your church.

The very same man you preach about wouldnt be used in your church.

How convicting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

You are going way over board... First of all like we have said numerous times this is just a " house rule ". like in the church I go to if you want to be in leadership you've got to be clean shaven and if you want to keep your beard then that's fine but you won't be used in our local church. Nobody that I know has ever said this is a heaven or hell issue. It's just a standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Exactly! I tried to make this point earlier but they just want to keep bashing the pastors.. Even if I did decided to grow one out I would be without a job cause we can't have one at my work.

It is a preference not a standard... and no person had the right to impose their preferences on another in God's house. The bible should be the authority and if something is not sin it should not be forbidden nor should there be groups of first and second class citizens based on a false 'standard'. Your pastor is creating second class citizens by not allowing full participation to those who do not keep in line with his preference for clean faces by denying them a platform to preach, teach, minister.

The Holy Ghost will grow every believer to be like Christ... additional pressure from man to be something more pleasing to man is not necessary and is probably a sin.

KeptByTheWord · #**245** 07-07-2012, 10:27 AM

I might add one scripture reference to further this train of thought, words from the very mouth of Jesus.

Mark 7:7-8 "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandments of God, ye hold the tradition of men..."

Titus2woman · #**246** 07-07-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Personal holiness of spirit, character and dress using moderation in all things is what should have been adopted years ago by the Pentecostal church fathers. Because if that had been the case, we wouldn't have the legalistic mess that we have now.

I believe God does hold his children who have been delivered from the bondage of sin to a higher standard of living. Our personal holiness should be delivered by the Holy Spirit residing in us, convicting each of us personally of things that draw us away from the Lord.

When one enforces his convictions on another, be it family, friend, or in the ministry, then it becomes legalism, legalistic, and not of God. Paul spoke of this many times in his writings, about not judging another in circumcision, holy days, food, feasts, and so on. Those were the cultural issues of the day. The cultural issues have changed but the principle still remains that Paul taught.

IF the Spirit of the Lord convicts you of something, don't assume that same conviction is now supposed to be found in everyone you come in contact with. But live out your conviction, and be true to it, and honor God with it. This is true holiness.

True personal holiness will never come about because it is demanded.

True personal holiness will be a result of a change brought only because of the residence of the Spirit of Jesus in one's life.

Again, in my opinion, IF the OP churches in the beginning of the outpouring of the Spirit ... had begun to teach personal holiness, instead of making things a "standard", perhaps we would not have the terrible mess that we see today in many (not all) but many OP churches.

I am hoping and praying for a return of a spirit of true personal holiness in the churches, so that the truth and gospel of Christ can grow as never before. BUT the growth of these churches will continue be stunted because of the legalistic ideas that are not of God.

I love this... and it conveys every thought I have on holiness, on standards and on what is good and right... I could not add one word that would make this more complete in any way.

Thank you.

hometown guy · #**247** 07-07-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

How convicting.

It is a preference not a standard... and no person had the right to impose their preferences on another in God's house. The bible should be the authority and if something is not sin it should not be forbidden nor should there be groups of first and second class citizens based on a false 'standard'. Your pastor is creating second class citizens by not allowing full participation to those who do not keep in line with his preference for clean faces by denying them a platform to preach, teach, minister.

The Holy Ghost will grow every believer to be like Christ... additional pressure from man to be something more pleasing to man is not necessary and is probably a sin.

Wow! Someone puts something about an old testament law and You put " how convicting " .... Interesting

Titus2woman · #**248** 07-07-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Wow! Someone puts something about an old testament law and You put " how convicting " .... Interesting

Yeah... I'm just interesting like that...

Really... you do not see the fact that Jesus as a Jew was faithful to his covenant as right and good? I do... and I see that we should be faithful to walk in the freedom of the new convenant.

hometown guy · #**249** 07-07-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I might add one scripture reference to further this train of thought, words from the very mouth of Jesus.

Mark 7:7-8 "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandments of God, ye hold the tradition of men..."

Don't forget about this scripture...

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

tv1a · #**250** 07-07-2012, 12:53 PM

Doesn't mean you can make up rules 2,000 years later and call them traditions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Don't forget about this scripture...

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.