We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven - Page 26

Aquila · #**251** 04-20-2011, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The performance gospel? You mean doing the will of God?
Doesnt the scripture say he who does the will of God lives forever? Didnt Jesus say why call me Lord and do not the things I say?

Is the will of God obeying His Law to be saved?

Or...

Is the will of God being conformed into the image of Jesus Christ and doing good deeds through the Spirit of Christ Jesus because you're saved?

LUKE2447 · #**252** 04-20-2011, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Is the will of God obeying His Law to be saved?

Or...

Is the will of God being conformed into the image of Jesus Christ and doing good deeds through the Spirit of Christ Jesus because you're saved?

and this is why you don't get it and you don't see the issue as hand. For you to bring up the type of argument you just did shows you don't understand what law is overall. Which is why you make distinctions like you do.

LUKE2447 · #**253** 04-20-2011, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The performance gospel? You mean doing the will of God?
Doesnt the scripture say he who does the will of God lives forever? Didnt Jesus say why call me Lord and do not the things I say?

now michael don't go messing with his forensic justification.

mfblume · #**254** 04-20-2011, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

and this is why you don't get it and you don't see the issue as hand. For you to bring up the type of argument you just did shows you don't understand what law is overall. Which is why you make distinctions like you do.

Well that was the "post without any substance" of the day!

mfblume · #**255** 04-20-2011, 08:01 AM

This is why I asked if someone obeyed Acts 2:38 are they ready for glory at that moment in time? If one is not counted faithful and able to enter the kingdom without doing good works for God, then is this Acts 2:38 person not faithful since they had no chance to do anything yet? If we are judged at the great white throne for our works to determine heaven or hell and an Acts 2:38 dude had no works to show of since they just got saved and the rapture occurred, are they not going to heaven? This shows that the works we do for the Lord ARE NOT what determine if we go to heaven or not. BAD unatoned-for works determine hell for us, but nothing but the blood of Jesus allows for us to go to glory.

LUKE2447 · #**256** 04-20-2011, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Well that was the "post without any substance" of the day!

I am simply making a statement from my point of view I don't have time right now to go into lengthy dicussion. My point is to think about why he makes certan distinctions. It had substance as it is pointing to MY OPINION vs his reasoning for making such distinctions the way he does.

Oh and Mike how many views of atonement and justification have you studied outside of your clearly Reformed drenched views? You said you went through a period of study over it. WHO did you study during that time?

mfblume · #**257** 04-20-2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I am simply making a statement from my point of view I don't have time right now to go into lengthy dicussion. My point is to think about why he makes certan distinctions. It had substance as it is pointing to MY OPINION vs his reasoning for making such distinctions the way he does.

Oh and Mike how many views of atonement and justification have you studied outside of your clearly Reformed drenched views? You said you went through a period of study over it. WHO did you study during that time?

I know it's hard for some to believe that we can study the bible alone and get thoughts, but I did not study any man's writings from any books. Pigeonhole it all you want, but I studied the BIBLE intensely for those years I was referring to. I studied no Reformer school material whatsoever. I got this directly from the Lord. I do not know where your Reform accusation comes from. I do not know what the Reform movement teaches on any of this.

Revelationist · #**258** 04-20-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

So you believe it is by works?

Of course not. But I still want to try. If a person don't want to try, he's really not in Love with Christ.

mfblume · #**259** 04-20-2011, 09:07 AM

I just researched for the last minute a little snippet about Reformed theology. What is so ironic about LUKE2447's accusation is that I claimed God directly spoke to me about these issues of the cross in my personal studies of the bible, and Reformed theologians do not believe God does that whatsoever today. They claim God ONLY speaks through written word. And I got things from prayer and bible study that you claim I got from Reformed writings.

Bro., get away from man's writings. You refer us to books, pigeon-hole beliefs with some movement you are aware of, and do not seem to go directly to God and the Bible for these things. That is why people will reject anything they do not already agree with, since there is no concept of letting the Lord lead a person. They stand on the vein of theology they were taught and never divert away from it due to some sort of loyalty issue, not realizing God wants to lead us by His Spirit into the Word to better understand it just as the Word was first inspired by that same Spirit!

Why ask WHOSE BOOKS do we read? Are you saying you get all your beliefs from men's books? Phew! Is there no room for the Spirit leading one's personal studies? If we disagree with your theology does that mean we must have read a bad book?

LUKE2447 · #**260** 04-20-2011, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

I just researched for the last minute a little snippet about Reformed theology. What is so ironic about LUKE2447's accusation is that I claimed God directly spoke to me about these issues of the cross in my personal studies of the bible, and Reformed theologians do not believe God does that whatsoever today. They claim God ONLY speaks through written word. And I got things from prayer and bible study that you claim I got from Reformed writings.

Bro., get away from man's writings. You refer us to books, pigeon-hole beliefs with some movement you are aware of, and do not seem to go directly to God and the Bible for these things. That is why people will reject anything they do not already agree with, since there is no concept of letting the Lord lead a person. They stand on the vein of theology they were taught and never divert away from it due to some sort of loyalty issue, not realizing God wants to lead us by His Spirit into the Word to better understand it just as the Word was first inspired by that same Spirit!

Why ask WHOSE BOOKS do we read? Are you saying you get all your beliefs from men's books? Phew! Is there no room for the Spirit leading one's personal studies? If we disagree with your theology does that mean we must have read a bad book?

yeah... uh huh. Sure we can study the Bible for itself as we both advocate. Yet I am sorry but I do not see what you said as the total case. You use terminology and many different aspects that simply does not make that the case. Also when reading the Bible to say it does not have theological infuence in it totally misses translation issues among a few things. Mike we are all influnced principle reasoning on different levels and argumentation. To say you are not influenced as much as you debate by others book or not is laughable. Also to uderstand the Bible to it's depth and context takes a lot of work and aid of sources to get alleged backgound.

Mike again who in you years have you studied from a apologetic standpoint directly on this issue. I like sources as I read both sides of the argument. Also many other studies give side or indirect impressions of thought to it whether you want to acknowlege it or not.

Whether you agree with reformed on everything or not is not the issue. I am talking about a specific s of issues. Well gotta go. Oh and by the way the thing you disagreed on is what w agree on in many aspects.