Hey buddy, the USA of history is ALREADY no more, in many aspects, negative and positive.
9/11 changed us forever and I don't think it necessarily had to. But it did and now we are not as free as we were before 9/11. Everyone is more careful, some say it's good, I'm sure it's not-- I just don't know how to put words to it without seeming irresponsible in terms of "security and safety".
How are we not as free? Because of the domestic and international survelliance conducted by the goverment? Please. You don't want the CIA or FBI listening to phone conversations between terrorists and thier sympathizers here in the US? They can listen to me all they want. I have nothing to hide. I'm in no danger. The only folks who should worry are terrorists and those that would aid and abet them.
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Another glaring example is America's invasion of Iraq. With that one act, we lost years and years of credibility as a just nation in the eyes of the international community.
Most folks don't realize how unjust this action was-- not the actions of the troops, but the action of the Government that dictates the actions of the troops. Hussein got what was coming to him, but it should not have been us.
Okay. Let's talk about the FACTS here. I know its not always a convenient factor when it comes to the Bush bashers on Iraq but the truth can make you free if you're willing to embrace it. First, EVERYONE, including nations that opposed our actions against Hussein, all were in agreement that Hussein had WMDs in violation of the original cease-fire agreement of 1991. The info was proven to be faulty, but no one at the time had any reason to believe it was not true.
The loss of credibility was not with the US but with the UN since Hussen had violated 17 UN Resolutions and they did not have the integrity to back up those resolutions. Bush showed leadership, with a coaliton of many nations including Britian, Poland, Spain, Italy and dozens of other countries in support.
We did not lose a reputation as a just nation, just ask the millions of Iraqis who are living with more freedom than ever, more security, democracy, and prosperity. If we were unjust, 1399, why haven't we helped out our economy by trading the so-called "blood for oil" that the Bush bashers love to chant? We traded blood for freedom and justice in Iraq, as we always do. We are rebuilding this nation, its infrastructure and its fundamental institutions for a stable and freedom loving nation. Time is proving our credibility.
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GWB's pumping of government cash into private, commercial banks HAS NEVER been done before and is THE CLOSEST TO SOCIALISM our country has lurked, ever. It happened on a Republican's watch, after 6 years of Republican domination of the House and Senate.
What he did will prove to be wise financially, but that man has violated a founding principle.
He has crossed a line that our country will never retreat from. He did so in the name of money.
Yes, the foundation for change has been laid, thanks to our Republican leadership!
Nothing Bush has done has come near FDR's New Deal or LBJ's Great Society. It is my understanding that private industry is supposed to pay the taxpayers back with interest and the ownership of the banking industry will return to the private sector. Lee Iacocca paid the US Treasury back the money we pumped into Chrysler to save it and the taxpayers actually made a profit. The S & L bailout did essentially the same thing. There is no plan or design for the government to own these financial institutions permanently.
1399 I see a trend in your posts. Much like the Obama campaign you repeat the talking points to dodge and weave and point the finger to divert the attention away from the truth. If the media wasn't so in the tank for BO and pro-Democrat, much of the misinformation out there about Iraq, the economy, the Obama campaign, Sarah Palin, etc would not exist.
Thanks for continuing to spread the false assertions and Bush bashing. Keep saying it enough times and people will eventually believe it. It has been effective for the NY Times, Boston Globe, Washington Post, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, et al. It might be effective for you too.
Except for those of us who won't drink the Kool Aid without checking for the cyanide first.
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When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
How are we not as free? Because of the domestic and international survelliance conducted by the goverment? Please. You don't want the CIA or FBI listening to phone conversations between terrorists and thier sympathizers here in the US? They can listen to me all they want. I have nothing to hide. I'm in no danger. The only folks who should worry are terrorists and those that would aid and abet them.
We are not as free as in we are not as carefree. That's mainly what I was pointing to. However, there are other ways in which there is a heightened tension, call it scrutiny if you will, on some of the mundane.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Okay. Let's talk about the FACTS here. I know its not always a convenient factor when it comes to the Bush bashers on Iraq but the truth can make you free if you're willing to embrace it. First, EVERYONE, including nations that opposed our actions against Hussein, all were in agreement that Hussein had WMDs in violation of the original cease-fire agreement of 1991. The info was proven to be faulty, but no one at the time had any reason to believe it was not true.
The loss of credibility was not with the US but with the UN since Hussen had violated 17 UN Resolutions and they did not have the integrity to back up those resolutions. Bush showed leadership, with a coaliton of many nations including Britian, Poland, Spain, Italy and dozens of other countries.
We did not lose a reputation as a just nation, just ask the millions of Iraqis who are living with more freedom than ever, more security, democracy, and prosperity. If we were unjust, 1399, why haven't we helped out our economy by trading the so-called "blood for oil" that the Bush bashers love to chant? We traded blood for freedom and justice in Iraq, as we always do. We are rebuilding this nation, its infrastructure and its fundamental institutions for a stable and freedom loving nation. Time is proving our credibility.
The WMD's argument was not worthy of an invasion, according to the U.N.
When we did it anyway, GWB gambled with our Country's credibility and our credibility suffered a black eye because of it.
Though your assessment is fair and truthful, it is not debatable that the American Government was and still is frowned upon for our actions in Iraq.
Fairly or unfairly, we loss credibility in the international community.
GWB's perceived bungling of Hurricane Katrina feeds the idea that America is more interested in fixing other countries without trying to fix her own.
We know that GWB was the last person to fail the residents of New Orleans, but that's the burden of leadership. Fairly or not, GWB's actions are perceived to have damaged badly our credibility.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
Nothing Bush has done has come near FDR's New Deal or LBJ's Great Society. It is my understanding that private industry is supposed to pay the taxpayers back with interest and the ownership of the banking industry will return to the private sector. Lee Iacocca paid the US Treasury back the money we pumped into Chrysler to save it and the taxpayers actually made a profit. The S & L bailout did essentially the same thing. There is no plan or design for the government to own these financial institutions permanently.
Examining LBJ's Great Society, I read there was a lot of good that came out of this plan. Most of the stuff in his plan is just good policy for our Country.
I do not call this Socialism.
Furthermore, spending for this plan expanded EXPONENTIALLY under Republican leadership, that is established fact as well.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
1399 I see a trend in your posts. Much like the Obama campaign you repeat the talking points to dodge and weave and point the finger to divert the attention away from the truth. If the media wasn't so in the tank for BO and pro-Democrat, much of the misinformation out there about Iraq, the economy, the Obama campaign, Sarah Palin, etc would not exist.
Thanks for continuing to spread the false assertions and Bush bashing. Keep saying it enough times and people will eventually believe it. It has been effective for the NY Times, Boston Globe, Washington Post, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, et al. It might be effective for you too.
Except for those of us who won't drink the Kool Aid without checking for the cyanide first.
DB,
Do you care to expound on the MISINFORMATION that is being circulated Iraq, the economy, Obama, Palin and etc?
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
How are we not as free? Because of the domestic and international survelliance conducted by the goverment? Please. You don't want the CIA or FBI listening to phone conversations between terrorists and thier sympathizers here in the US? They can listen to me all they want. I have nothing to hide. I'm in no danger. The only folks who should worry are terrorists and those that would aid and abet them.
Okay. Let's talk about the FACTS here. I know its not always a convenient factor when it comes to the Bush bashers on Iraq but the truth can make you free if you're willing to embrace it. First, EVERYONE, including nations that opposed our actions against Hussein, all were in agreement that Hussein had WMDs in violation of the original cease-fire agreement of 1991. The info was proven to be faulty, but no one at the time had any reason to believe it was not true.
Easy there DB. If you're not concerned with defending your constitutional rights, that's fine. Some of us aren't exactly willing to trod all over the 4th amendment so telephone calls that the government has NO reason to believe is concerning terrorism can be recorded and listened too. If someone makes a call that's on a terrorist watch list, then by all means listen. That's not what the Bush administration proposed. Any call from outside this country to a U.S. citizen can be eavesdropped on for no reason at all. That's treasonous and unconstitutional.
On Iraq, I completely agree that GWB was given bad intelligence. The CIA and other intelligence agencies bear that responsibility.
The truth, however, is that GWB had the same intelligence that Bill Clinton had, but Bill Clinton didn't make the disastrous mistake of planning and undertaking a full scale ground invasion of a sovereign country on maybe's and probably's. GWB's collasial failure was acting on that intelligence when he shouldn't have. It's a well known fact that intelligence is wrong a great % of the time. The lesson that has to be taken from this folly is that when going to war based solely on intelligence, it's prudent to not do so unless it's a last resort. Iraq was NOT a last resort.
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In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Augustine
Hasn't forms of socialism been going on for decades in the U.S.? I mean for as long as I remember people who've paid nothing in have gotten benefits and handouts funded by tax payers.
Why suddenly is it such an outrage? Is it only because it could effect the wealthy in Obama's proposal?
All of this sudden outrage is a little strange.
In the past the intention was a leg up..a helping hand. But a redistribution f wealth is an entirely different dog altogether
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Hasn't forms of socialism been going on for decades in the U.S.? I mean for as long as I remember people who've paid nothing in have gotten benefits and handouts funded by tax payers.
Why suddenly is it such an outrage? Is it only because it could effect the wealthy in Obama's proposal?
All of this sudden outrage is a little strange.
Yep seem strange. Lets get real here, we are going to have higher tax no matter who gets in ! Otherwise how will these supposed programs come to be??? It take money and a lot of it, yes your and mine as well, yes we are going to pay the piper no matter what. DUH!! Do I like it??? Nope, but it not going away!
I for one em ready for big change, sick of yesterday leftover and stone age thinking!
Yep seem strange. Lets get real here, we are going to have higher tax no matter who gets in ! Otherwise how will these supposed programs come to be??? It take money and a lot of it, yes your and mine as well, yes we are going to pay the piper no matter what. DUH!! Do I like it??? Nope, but it not going away!
I for one em ready for big change, sick of yesterday leftover and stone age thinking!
Higher taxes no matter who wins? Lets get real here. Who has the track record for cutting taxes and raising taxes? Reagan, W. Bush = tax cutters. Bush, Sr raised taxes as a compromise with the Democrat Congress and lost reelection. Clinton promised a middle class tax cut in '92 and NEVER gave us one, but instead gave us the largest tax increase in history. But he was magnetic and spoke well so we reelected him. I have paid less taxes in the Bush years than I ever did under Clinton and my income has been higher in this decade than last.
You're deluting yourself if you think that no matter who wins we will all pay higher taxes. On what credible information supports that idea? Is it a gut feeling? So you are ready for big change? Well President Obama will bring you plenty of it. Your dollars will turn to change. He will change marriage to include gay couples. He will change our constitution. He will change the conservative bent of the Supreme Court to ore liberal. He will change our healthcare system into a government controlled socialist program. He will change restrictions on late term abortions. He will change our relationship with Israel. He will change from his middle of the road campaign rhetoric to his true liberal, radical socialist self.
With Obama you'll get big change alright, buddy, but I am afraid it won't be the kind of change you'll be Happy Town with.
__________________
When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
Hybrid Mode
