US Navy Unable To Stop Suspected Arms Shipment

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I made sure to give you Israeli sites.

You miss the point, we as Christians have no dog in this fight. It is a mess that is fueled by a government that continues to claim a victim's position.

You are not understanding the world view of this, we are not back in 1948 or 1967, we are sitting in 2009. Israel would mop up Gaza with every man woman and child if given the chance.

You are not understanding the Israeli sites you gave me. This criticism of Israel's military is coming from Israel itself. So why do you think Israel would launch some genocidal attack when the Israeli people are the biggest hindrance to such a policy?

You seem to want to smear Israel here with a "blood libel" for something that only you imagine that they would do - and then to substantiate your charge against the Israelis, you tell me the Israelis themselves abhor such bloodshed. You really don't have anything to back up the charge of: "Israel would mop up Gaza with every man woman and child if given the chance," do you?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

If Israel was trying to seek peace, then why does she continue to constantly agitate the situation by sending her settlers into Palestinian Occupied Territory?

The settler movement is very problematic but Israel hasn't "sent out settlers" for years.

Basically they won a bit of territory in a defensive war - territory that would make future defense more secure if it were developed. They experimented with that idea - even building settlements in the Sinai. But then they abandoned those settlements and the Sinai, and the oil fields in Sinai when Sadat proved open to peace. They did the same thing in Gaza. All Egyptian territory has been returned - only the Egyptians don't want Gaza back.

Currently it is illegal to build new settlements in the West Bank and current settlements are under pressure to close down with the Israeli government giving financial incentives for those who will resettle elsewhere within Israel. All settlements in Gaza were abandoned years ago - along with their expensive factories, greenhouses and infrastructure. The Palestinians tore everything down immediately. They could have used the greenhouses and even the homes - but instead they destroyed everything to perpetuate their "victim status."

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's not what you call trying to keep peace.

And they're not doing it. There are settler groups that do outrageous things like setting up "outposts" consisting of plywood shacks on strategic hillsides. These actions generate a lot of attention as do the forced evacuations of the settlers by the Israeli army.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Palestinian kill other Palestinians? Do you have a clue to why?
Because both groups feel that the other isn't doing enough to get the invader out of their land. Yes, Invader. The Palestinian is treated like a prisoner on a reservation, behind a wall, and bars. Having to watch their wives for at least two generations give birth at IDF check points.

Israel is not "the Invader." Your trendy pop culture Pro-Terrorist lingo is inaccurate. The Palestinian people were created in 1967 from the former citizens of Egypt and Jordan. Then the whole mess turned so ugly that even Egypt and Jordan wanted to wash their hands of it.

You exaggerate a couple of truly unfortunate incidences with the "2 generations..." thing.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

It takes sometimes hours to get in and out of the occupied territories, to go to work, hospitals, and schools. Life is unbearable for these people, so they get angry, not only with the oppressor, but with those who are in the jail cell with them. Who they believe not to be working with them to eradicate the invaders. Who side are YOU on? Israel? Palestine? Hamas? The PLO?

The reason for this is to try and slow the pace of the suicide bombers down. You must know this. Why do you ignore the awful carnage that keeps being wrecked upon peaceful Israelis?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You should be on no one's side who would resort to bloodshed, and murder.
I thought I stated that before? I really thought I made myself clear on that matter? So, I will repeat myself. We should be for PEACE, not death and destruction of anyone.

An interesting statement from someone who objects to measures taken to impede suicide bombers. First you want to remove the obstacles that were put in the bombers' way; and then you claim that you want to facilitate the passage of suicide bombers in the interests of "peace." I do in fact "choose sides" from time to time. In this case, you've obviously chosen the wrong side.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No one's human rights should be forfeited. No children should be placed in harms way, and no 4 year old should have their legs torn off.

And yet you want to see more of this? Click the link. Yes, those are baby carriages.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The BAD GUY? How about balance of power? Do you mean to tell me that there is a balance of power?

What are you talking about? No, I don't want to see a "balance of power." I want to see the "good guys" win, on every side.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Come on already, compare the fire power of the two groups involved. Stop and think of what is going on over there and educate yourself. Pray that peace will come, and that the fighting would end when the Peace Activists in Israel and in Palestine wake the government up that brute force and antagonizing the people will never bring peace.

Israel was antagonized by the incessant shelling, mortar fire and rockets coming from Gaza after they had abandoned the settlements there.

hmm... Israel abandons Gazan settlements. Gaza is turned into an armed camp and starts firing indiscriminately upon Israeli civilian targets, Israel responds and Benincasa says it's all caused by Israel "sending settlers" into Arab lands.

Must be pretty late in your part of the country, bro.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by pelathais

hmm... Israel abandons Gazan settlements. Gaza is turned into an armed camp and starts firing indiscriminately upon Israeli civilian targets, Israel responds and Benincasa says it's all caused by Israel "sending settlers" into Arab lands.

Must be pretty late in your part of the country, bro.

Crazy isn't it? Oh, one other thing that precipitated. There was a brief fire fight when Israel caught Hamas planting a bomb.

BTW those home made rockets? I wonder where they are getting the parts for them? Did they make the mortar rounds too?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

You are not understanding the Israeli sites you gave me. This criticism of Israel's military is coming from Israel itself. So why do you think Israel would launch some genocidal attack when the Israeli people are the biggest hindrance to such a policy?

Yes, I totally understand the sites I gave you. I made sure I gave you Israeli sites written by Israelis. It is also a known FACT, that if the United Nations and the rest of the world wasn't intensively critical of Israel's treatment of the Palestinians those Palestinians would be wiped out or driven out to the outlying countries. The criticism of Israel's military is coming from Israel itself are the citizens and religious of Israel. Just like you have in America, Americans who criticize their own government. What a novel idea? Imagine we have free thinking people who want real truth and freedom around the world.

Originally Posted by pelathais

You seem to want to smear Israel here with a "blood libel" for something that only you imagine that they would do - and then to substantiate your charge against the Israelis, you tell me the Israelis themselves abhor such bloodshed. You really don't have anything to back up the charge of: "Israel would mop up Gaza with every man woman and child if given the chance," do you?

Now I can see your confusion. You first came back at me by saying that the sites I offered you are Israelis criticizing Israeli military and their actions, and then you say the above? Well, their nothing going to change your mind. You must truly believe that Israel is fighting a super power armed with state of the art weapons and an enemy army more skilled than the United States Marines. Try to do some research outside of your narrow view, and devotion to a country that has caused your own country bad relationships throughout the free world.

http://www.ussliberty.org/findleybook.htm

http://www.gtr5.com/

Originally Posted by pelathais

The settler movement is very problematic but Israel hasn't "sent out settlers" for years.

Where o you live? Where did that come from? Write Dem. Jimmy Carter, and Rep. Paul Findley, and TELL THEM the above.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Basically they won a bit of territory in a defensive war - territory that would make future defense more secure if it were developed. They experimented with that idea - even building settlements in the Sinai. But then they abandoned those settlements and the Sinai, and the oil fields in Sinai when Sadat proved open to peace. They did the same thing in Gaza. All Egyptian territory has been returned - only the Egyptians don't want Gaza back.

Can you produce a map of Palestinian land? Won the land in a defensive war? Me thinks you also believe that we won the black hills in a defensive war.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Currently it is illegal to build new settlements in the West Bank and current settlements are under pressure to close down with the Israeli government giving financial incentives for those who will resettle elsewhere within Israel. All settlements in Gaza were abandoned years ago - along with their expensive factories, greenhouses and infrastructure. The Palestinians tore everything down immediately. They could have used the greenhouses and even the homes - but instead they destroyed everything to perpetuate their "victim status."

Oh I thought they haven't built settlements in occupied lands for YEARS?
Second thought don't write anyone, you couldn't care less. You must have Fox news pumped into your veins. I heard the same slander about people who lived in the South Bronx for years. That anything that were given to them they destroyed. You are wrong at so many levels it's not even funny.

Originally Posted by pelathais

And they're not doing it. There are settler groups that do outrageous things like setting up "outposts" consisting of plywood shacks on strategic hillsides. These actions generate a lot of attention as do the forced evacuations of the settlers by the Israeli army.

I have a friend who was a settler. He told me that other settlers openly walked around armed to the teeth. He said the settlers would shoot at Palestinians who were working their olive groves, burn groves. Pelathais you don't know what you are talking about.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Israel is not "the Invader." Your trendy pop culture Pro-Terrorist lingo is inaccurate.

Wow, you are really having a problem with this? Pro Terrorist? Do your wear bear skins and carry a club? How about pro peace? I posted those web sites and you breezed through them just to justify your own agenda, and beliefs.
You couldn't care less. Out of site out of mind. Not your children getting their limbs ripped off. Hey you just justify your thoughts by saying that the parents of these children send them off to die. That is nonsense. You can't even get Pentecostals to get it together, and yet there is a religion out there that has full cooperation by its adherents? Shut off your television, it's blinding your mind.

You are wrong on so many levels. I will answer the rest of your post later.

Pro Terrorist? That was out of line.

Oh weren't YOU the one who blasted me a while ago and corrected me that we weren't in a Recession?

Shut off your television, Big Brother has been teaching YOU.

In JESUS NAME

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Can you produce a map of Palestinian land? Won the land in a defensive war? Me thinks you also believe that we won the black hills in a defensive war.

Can you produce such a map? Here's a UN map: http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/israel.pdf

The area labeled "Gaza" was sovereign Egyptian territory before 1967. The area labeled "West Bank" was sovereign Jordanian territory until 1967.

There simply was no "Palestine." The land that is Israel today was called "Trans-Jordan" during the British mandate period that ended in 1948. Before the British took it in WW1 it was called "The Ottoman Empire."

The Six Day War of 1967 is universally seen as a defensive war on Israel's part. See this, this and this. The primary catalyst for starting the war was the persistent attacks on Israel carried out by the Fatah terrorist organization that was allowed to operated freely in Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

"Fatah" is Arabic for "Conquest." They saw their fight against Israel as being a war of "conquest" and not a defense of their own lands and homes.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Oh I thought they haven't built settlements in occupied lands for YEARS?

Are you on drugs? Are you perhaps lacking medication? Re-read that part that you highlighted. Read it slowly, or perhaps have someone else read it for you.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Second thought don't write anyone, you couldn't care less.

Did you intend for this statement to be posted or were you simply responding to one of "the voices"? If you wish to respond to my posts, and I'm flattered that you would, please try to keep your responses limited to those things that I'm saying and ignore "the voices."

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You must have Fox news pumped into your veins.

I watch so little television and television news that I can't really evaluate that statement.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I heard the same slander about people who lived in the South Bronx for years. That anything that were given to them they destroyed. You are wrong at so many levels it's not even funny.

I don't know about the "South Bronx;" but "slander?" Moi? How about this?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I have a friend who was a settler. He told me that other settlers openly walked around armed to the teeth. He said the settlers would shoot at Palestinians who were working their olive groves, burn groves. Pelathais you don't know what you are talking about.

What did I even say that would contradict the above statement? Except the part about you having "friends," I'm pretty skeptical about that.

I think the word I used to describe the settler movement was "problematic." And I was being nice. I don't have any friends who are settlers because those who are left in the movement don't tend to be very friendly.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Wow, you are really having a problem with this? Pro Terrorist? Do your wear bear skins and carry a club? How about pro peace? I posted those web sites and you breezed through them just to justify your own agenda, and beliefs.

Believe it or not, I am very familiar with the Gush Shalom movement and I read Haaretz almost daily. Your piddling around with Google didn't really put anything new on the table. You didn't even appear to be aware of the fact that more that half your links were Jewish or Israeli until I pointed it out to you. And even then, you still failed to come to terms with the glaring contradiction that existed - You made it appear that Israel was just chomping at the bit to killed "every man, woman and child in Gaza..." and yet the Israeli and Jewish sites themselves give just the opposite impression.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You couldn't care less. Out of site out of mind. Not your children getting their limbs ripped off. Hey you just justify your thoughts by saying that the parents of these children send them off to die. That is nonsense. You can't even get Pentecostals to get it together, and yet there is a religion out there that has full cooperation by its adherents? Shut off your television, it's blinding your mind.

What is it that blinds your mind? Your anti-Israel language was so strong - particularly to call Israel "the Invader" and your dismissing the dangers posed by the Katyusha rockets - that it indicates you support the policies of the terrorists. You even complained about the measures that were put into place to stop the suicide bombers - measures that have worked and saved countless lives.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You are wrong on so many levels. I will answer the rest of your post later.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Pro Terrorist? That was out of line.

No, what was out of line was you espousing policies that obviously aid the terrorists.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Oh weren't YOU the one who blasted me a while ago and corrected me that we weren't in a Recession?

I vaguely remember a conversation with someone where I explained that the official designation of "Recession" and so forth can only be made after the fact. You have to wait until an enormous amount of data is compiled and analyzed, reported and released. Thus, we could be in a recession at some time but not have the numbers to back it up until a later date. Also, such as in 1992, we could go into and come out of a recession before all the numbers are even in.

As far as "blasting" you - I'll leave that to whatever it is that torments you so terribly on your own. I really don't think my words could ever hurt you as badly as you must feel about yourself at times.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Shut off your television, Big Brother has been teaching YOU.

Your constant harping on a nonexistent issue reveals the qualities of a bigot. Your open and angry opposition to measures taken to control terrorists shows your support for terrorism.

The fact that you have failed to even address any of the points I raised persuades me that other than a generalized and angry anti-Semitism you don't really seem to know much about the history of the Middle East.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The Palestinian people were created in 1967 from the former citizens of Egypt and Jordan. Then the whole mess turned so ugly that even Egypt and Jordan wanted to wash their hands of it.[/B]

What are you saying? Are you trying to have us believe that these are people without a homeland? That's a switch. Prior to 1948 it was the European Jewry who were the one's without a homeland. These Palestinians had been living in Israel, Jerusalem for hundreds of years. They were forced out of their "home" land, and deposited into the occupied territories.
The Eastern Europe Jews settled in Palestine prior to 1948, after the British gained the land from the crumbling Ottoman empire. The Balfour Declaration November 2, 1917 enabled Jews to settle in and around Israel. Sort of like the early American settlers on Indian land.

Originally Posted by pelathais

You exaggerate a couple of truly unfortunate incidences with the "2 generations..." thing.

Excuse me but there is Palestinians who to this day wear keys around their necks awaiting to return to homes within Israel and Jerusalem. You have two generations of Palestinians who have been under Israeli occupation. How an occupying force treats the people that they are over, has a lot to do with what kind of peace they can expect. No exaggerating being done by me. The day of making excuses for Israel are over. They need to be brought to task for a problem that has cost this country dearly.

Originally Posted by pelathais

The reason for this is to try and slow the pace of the suicide bombers down. You must know this. Why do you ignore the awful carnage that keeps being wrecked upon peaceful Israelis?

Why do you ignore the awful carnage waged upon a people who can't even be rated as third worlders. I'm embarrassed at your lack of understanding of the issue. Also your want to defend a country who has caused the United States such a strain on its own foreign policy. Do you know that NATO, has offered to be at Israeli check points to help the Israelis? The problem is catastrophic, and the excuse of blaming all this on the religion is pretty much over. How many Palestinians do you know? Do you have any friends who are Israeli? Have you ever been to Gaza? To the occupied territories?

Originally Posted by pelathais

[B]An interesting statement from someone who objects to measures taken to impede suicide bombers.

Really? Is that what you got from my comments? Is this why so many citizens of this country are tired of religious people? Because of the above response? You need to dig yourself. I didn't say that check points need to be removed and allow everyone to file through. There is a problem and the problem can only be solved by treating people like humans. Frustrated Palestinians and frustrated IDF soldier are NOT working. America supports Israel financially at the tune of $1.8 trillion, with 700 billion dollar bailouts, and stimulus package maybe we should look at what is spent on Israel yearly. I believe that Israel has her right to exist, but please have her climb off the back of Uncle Sam. We have supported Israel to our own hurt. The solution is complex because Israel aggravates her own situation. She knows that she has backing from a golden goose and while the money keeps coming to supply weapons, and fuel her military there is no need to seek a lasting peace. A peace that at this point may never come.

Originally Posted by pelathais

First you want to remove the obstacles that were put in the bombers' way; and then you claim that you want to facilitate the passage of suicide bombers in the interests of "peace." I do in fact "choose sides" from time to time. In this case, you've obviously chosen the wrong side.

Since your knee jerk response was to call me a Pro-Terrorist (sorry to hear that your mind can't rap around the fact that not every Palestinian is a terrorist), I can see why you WANT to believe the above. Too bad you won't to the homework.

Originally Posted by pelathais

And yet you want to see more of this? Click the link. Yes, those are baby carriages.

Your link doesn't work friend.

Originally Posted by pelathais

What are you talking about? No, I don't want to see a "balance of power." I want to see the "good guys" win, on every side.

I guess at this point of our discussion you must of been pretty upset. Because you were no longer reading, you just kept replying.

Listen to me, balance of power means that both sides are equal to wage war with the same amount of fire power. Therefore since both would wipe out each other in the case of war, they would abstain. Since this will never be the case with the Palestinians I wanted you to understand that Israel was fighting against a people who have NOTHING, but homemade rockets, mortars, shells, bombs, slingshots, they resort to throwing bottles filled with gas. Suicide bombers are a weapon of desperation. The Kamikaze pilots of World War II increased as Japan started losing the war. They would take young teenage men and just teach them to get the plane off the ground and how to fly. They would bring them out and the lead pilot would just point to them to fly down into the American ships. Suicide bombers are a weapon of desperation. In case you missed it, allow me to make it plain for you. We are Christians are Christians don't have wars that use violence and deadly force. Therefore in this issue, there are no good guys.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Israel was antagonized by the incessant shelling, mortar fire and rockets coming from Gaza after they had abandoned the settlements there.

Do you even know about how prior to the shelling that Israel was blocking food and supplies going into Gaza.

Gaza was in pitch black darkness, no food no fuel? Wake up.

Originally Posted by pelathais

hmm... Israel abandons Gazan settlements. Gaza is turned into an armed camp and starts firing indiscriminately upon Israeli civilian targets, Israel responds and Benincasa says it's all caused by Israel "sending settlers" into Arab lands.

You really need to clam down and try to find out what your talking about.
Because having this discussion on the Internet is a luxury. When someone takes you to school on this subject in person, you going to be standing there looking foolish.

Try to find out what is happening, because your information is somewhat lacking.

In JESUS NAME

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Can you produce such a map? Here's a UN map: http://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/israel.pdf

The area labeled "Gaza" was sovereign Egyptian territory before 1967. The area labeled "West Bank" was sovereign Jordanian territory until 1967.

I am surprised that you have resorted to accuse me as one who supports terrorism, a bigot, and an Anti-Semite? You must of been pretty upset to choose that course of attack. Now since you have the map above, can you find the one that is spotted by active settlements? Do you know who owns the right to all the water in those occupied territories? Pro terrorist? Anti-Semite? There are children dying on both sides, and in Palestine you have the majority of the dead being women and children. I assure you that your charges of me are wrong, and apprehensible. I haven't dealt with your points? I most certainly have, I gave web sites, for you to check over. Didn't deal with your points? You resorted to calling me pro terrorist, Anti-Semite?
Try to strengthen your arguments. You obviously don't know your case.

Originally Posted by pelathais

There simply was no "Palestine." The land that is Israel today was called "Trans-Jordan" during the British mandate period that ended in 1948. Before the British took it in WW1 it was called "The Ottoman Empire."

Excuse me? So you are going to use the misplaced peoples argument.
These Palestinians were not living on that land prior to 1917?
Those early Jews lived alongside the Palestinians who lived there before the Balfour declaration. You need to do some research. Listen the area was called Palestine by Rome, 2000 years ago. The Palestinians lived there first.
Jerusalem wasn't abandoned, and the Israelis moved in and built a modern city and then some arabs came by and wanted it. That story is also growing old.

Originally Posted by pelathais

The Six Day War of 1967 is universally seen as a defensive war on Israel's part. See this, this and this. The primary catalyst for starting the war was the persistent attacks on Israel carried out by the Fatah terrorist organization that was allowed to operated freely in Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

"Fatah" is Arabic for "Conquest." They saw their fight against Israel as being a war of "conquest" and not a defense of their own lands and homes.

That's like saying the battle of the Little Big Horn was to defend American land. The battle was retaliation, because of what they lost.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Are you on drugs? Are you perhaps lacking medication? Re-read that part that you highlighted. Read it slowly, or perhaps have someone else read it for you.

Nice talk Pelathais, does this mean your argument is going down in flames.
Mellow, mellow, breath in, breath out, breath in, breath out.

It looked to me like you couldn't get your story straight. My apologies.
Maybe you should try to get information from other than MSNBC?

Originally Posted by pelathais

Did you intend for this statement to be posted or were you simply responding to one of "the voices"? If you wish to respond to my posts, and I'm flattered that you would, please try to keep your responses limited to those things that I'm saying and ignore "the voices."

Listen you are obviously angry to the point that you believe what you believe.
You have convinced yourself that the Palestinians are less then human, are ALL terrorists, they teach all their children to be suicide bombers, or human shields. Israel is huddled shaking in the corner, with trembling fear, as the powerful armies of Hamas with state of the art weaponry fire smack dab in the middle of Tel Aviv, and Jerusalem.

Also you are not flattered about anything in this discussion. You attack me and expect me to do what? Ignore the voices? Don't take it personal, from your responses I hardly believe that you could care less about gaining any truth other than Israel is justified.

Originally Posted by pelathais

I watch so little television and television news that I can't really evaluate that statement.

MSNBC, FOX, CBS, I'm not talking about you watching Scooby Doo, I'm talking about your choice of information. You need to scrap your television.
That is not from a Pentecostal view, that is from a informational view.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I don't know about the "South Bronx;" but "slander?" Moi? How about this?

Did you happen to read the article or did it just suit your agenda?

Maybe you need to read it again and place it in his context to the case we are discussing. Let see, YOU live in a bomb out apartment complex, or area, and you have no water? No WATER, NO WAY TO GET WATER. So what does the big bad Palestinian do? He straps bombs to his children and blows himself up? NO, he goes and takes apart the useless green houses, but what does he take? WATER PUMPS? Oh water pumps to pump water, and what about PLASTIC water pipes. You see doesn't that make sense to you? Or would you rather listen to MSNBC through your filters, and sleep easy knowing that those non-human Palestinians were just vandalizing the beautiful Israeli greenhouses.

Originally Posted by pelathais

What did I even say that would contradict the above statement? Except the part about you having "friends," I'm pretty skeptical about that.

I can say the same about you, but carry on it makes you feel better.

Originally Posted by pelathais

I think the word I used to describe the settler movement was "problematic." And I was being nice. I don't have any friends who are settlers because those who are left in the movement don't tend to be very friendly.

Don't tend to be friendly? Go on, tell me about the one who wasn't friendly to you?

Originally Posted by pelathais

Believe it or not, I am very familiar with the Gush Shalom movement and I read Haaretz almost daily. Your piddling around with Google didn't really put anything new on the table.

Are you spitting all over your monitor? I can see that you read Haaretz daily.

Whatever.

Originally Posted by pelathais

You didn't even appear to be aware of the fact that more that half your links were Jewish or Israeli until I pointed it out to you.

Does believing the above make you feel better? I always use sources that are non Palestinian. Because if I used them you would make your case that they were slighted. I'm sorry that you are so upset, but you really need to read Haaretz.

Originally Posted by pelathais

And even then, you still failed to come to terms with the glaring contradiction that existed - You made it appear that Israel was just chomping at the bit to killed "every man, woman and child in Gaza..." and yet the Israeli and Jewish sites themselves give just the opposite impression.

Yet, I haven't seen you address the information in those sites. The Israelis understand that their problems stem from a gross mistreatment of the Palestinians. How about the Palestinian Christians? How are their feeling of the occupation? They feel that Israel wants to eradicate them as well as any Muslim Palestinian. These people who are non-Muslim feel the threat and live under the same harsh conditions as their Muslim counterparts.

Originally Posted by pelathais

What is it that blinds your mind? Your anti-Israel language was so strong - particularly to call Israel "the Invader" and your dismissing the dangers posed by the Katyusha rockets - that it indicates you support the policies of the terrorists.

Homemade rockets, they destoyed the tunnels, they were straving out the Palestinians prior to the end of the truce. Homemade rockest, homemade mortars. Hey go back and re-read you MSNBC.

The army said troops in the village were attacked by a crowd of about 500 people hurling stones and concrete blocks, and a soldier was slightly injured. Troops fired rubber bullets at the attackers, one of whom was seen being taken away in a Palestinian ambulance, the military said.

Be reasonable, this is not a mechanized army, they are continually fight with sticks and stones. They are wore out, and are reduced to fighting like neanderthals.

Originally Posted by pelathais

You even complained about the measures that were put into place to stop the suicide bombers - measures that have worked and saved countless lives

I didn't, that is how you saw my words. Let me help you out.
Treat people like humans. Treat people like humans, treat people like humans.
Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists. Not all Palestinians are terrorists.

Originally Posted by pelathais

No, what was out of line was you espousing policies that obviously aid the terrorists.

Yawn.

Maybe you should turn Haaretz rightside up next time you read it.

Originally Posted by pelathais

I vaguely remember a conversation with someone where I explained that the official designation of "Recession" and so forth can only be made after the fact. You have to wait until an enormous amount of data is compiled and analyzed, reported and released. Thus, we could be in a recession at some time but not have the numbers to back it up until a later date. Also, such as in 1992, we could go into and come out of a recession before all the numbers are even in.

Well, this conversation is about done.

Turn the Wall Street Journal, and Barrons right side up also as you read.

Originally Posted by pelathais

As far as "blasting" you - I'll leave that to whatever it is that torments you so terribly on your own. I really don't think my words could ever hurt you as badly as you must feel about yourself at times.

Really?

Originally Posted by pelathais

Your constant harping on a nonexistent issue reveals the qualities of a bigot.

What you just said is truly horrible.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Your open and angry opposition to measures taken to control terrorists shows your support for terrorism.

Your candy stick use of the above shows that you are closed to any future discussion of this topic. I never said what you have constantly parroted back to me. You need to fly over to the occupied territories and spend a week there.

Originally Posted by pelathais

The fact that you have failed to even address any of the points I raised persuades me that other than a generalized and angry anti-Semitism you don't really seem to know much about the history of the Middle East.

Pelathais maybe you should just chill out and do the homework instead of parroting Zionist rhetoric. Listen, Zionism is not Judaism.

Good bye.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

What are you saying? Are you trying to have us believe that these are people without a homeland?

What is a "homeland?" Think carefully about that because historically it can be demonstrated that all human beings "belong" to a homeland region this stretches from Olduvai Gorge to Lake Chad. We are "invaders" everywhere else. All of us. Each of us. So why don't you "go home" and give the land you're living on back to the manatees and alligators?

The issue is quite a bit more complex than you are willing to admit at this point. You appear now to be referring to Israel proper and not the territories that include the West Bank and Gaza. Are these the "settlements" that you referred to earlier? Is Tel Aviv a "settlement" that the evil Israelis keep sending out settlers to inhabit?

Most civilized human beings have begun to realize that it's no longer expedient to act like territorial apes. We have to give a little and bend from time to time.

The vast majority of Palestinians are the descendants of the citizens of Egypt and Trans-Jordan. There are many who are the descendants of those who hearkened to Amin Hussein's call in 1948 to get out of the way of the Arab armies while they slaughtered all of the Jews. Previously, during WW2 Hussein had asked for German assistance to settle the "Jewish question" as it was being settled in Germany. When the Germans lost, the Grand Mufti continued to preach a jihad against the Jews "everywhere."

The Jews in Israel at this time could be roughly categorized into 3 groups: the "veteran Jews" whose families had always lived in the land; the Sephardi whose families were connected to North Africa and Andalusia (Spain) but had been relocating back to the Holy Land over the course of centuries and the Ashkenazim - the descendants of the Italian Jews Charlemagne relocated into the Rhine River Valley in the 9th century and whose ancestors migrated progressively eastward to escape anti-semitic pogroms. There were also many others, of course. The Yemeni Jews who dance by simply jumping straight up and down because they had to hide when then danced; the Babylonian Jews who are the descendants of those Jews who did not return with Ezra and Nehemiah, and so on.

It is the third group that you seem to have fixed your derision upon. You also seem to be unaware of the other two major groups or any others - though I suspect that this is a rhetorical stunt on your part in order to label all Jews as "invaders."

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

That's a switch. Prior to 1948 it was the European Jewry who were the one's without a homeland. These Palestinians had been living in Israel, Jerusalem for hundreds of years. They were forced out of their "home" land, and deposited into the occupied territories.

No, they were begged to stay in most cases. The Jews in Israel in 1948 felt that having civilian Arabs as neighbors would cause the Arab armies to hold back on their announced genocidal war of conquest.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The Eastern Europe Jews settled in Palestine prior to 1948, after the British gained the land from the crumbling Ottoman empire. The Balfour Declaration November 2, 1917 enabled Jews to settle in and around Israel. Sort of like the early American settlers on Indian land.

The Balfour declaration was a unilateral comment by the crumbling British Empire intended to win sympathetic votes for the ruling party in the upcoming. The British actually fought bloody battles to keep the Jews from escaping Europe and going to Israel.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Excuse me ...

Again, your "River to the Sea" mentality confuses you. Do you support the destruction of Israel?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You have two generations ...

What "Palestinians" where? The ones in the camps in Lebanon and Syria are kept in prison like environments by their Arab captors. The ones that used to be in Jordan were driven out by King Hussein in the 1970's because they constantly attacked and agitated Israel.

The ones in the bird cage of Gaza - territory that belonged to Egypt going back to the days of the Pharaohs are not "occupied." Israel completely disengaged from Gaza back in 2005. After Israel left Hamas, with Iranian guns took over and rearmed themselves. They have been attacking Israel nonstop since 2005.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

The day of making excuses for Israel are over. ...

You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Israel did not create the problems of the Middle East - militant Islam and Jihad are the problem. If you don't have the courage to stand up for what's right then tear off your mask. You are not promoting peace here, you are not advancing Christian ideals. You just want to see those nasty Jews get what you believe they've got coming to them, don't you?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why do you ignore the awful carnage ...

I don't ignore the real suffering - why did you eat so many paint chips when you were a child? I had nothing to do with that - and the public service television commercials all warned that you shouldn't eat those paint chip... ah! You never saw the commercial warning about the risks of eating paint chips.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Also your want to defend a country ...

Foreign policy will always have strains. Why do you want to destroy a nation that is reviled by hundreds of millions of brain washed Muslims?

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Do you know that NATO, has offered to be at Israeli ...

Why don't you ask the girls in Srebnica and Sarajevo what it's like to be "protected" by a NATO check point. The UN "monitors" in Lebanon have stood by and done nothing while Hezbollah has rearmed and loaded themselves up with 1,000's more of the Iranian missiles.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Really? Is that what you got from my comments? ...

The check points into and out of Israel are needed to protect Israelis. Simple fact - the ruling powers among the Palestinians are paid to kill Jews, and paid very well. Arafat died a multi-billionaire. They have a lot of incentive to kill Jews.

Yes, there must be hassles and tie ups in such a situation. The answer is for the Palestinian people themselves to resist their murderous rulers. But that is very dangerous.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Your link doesn't work friend.

Get a browser. The link to the MSN News site is fine.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I guess at this point of our discussion you must of been pretty upset. Because you were no longer reading, you just kept replying.

You keep guessing wrong. How sad to know everything and to lose all sense of wonder and the excitement of learning.[/quote]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Listen to me, ...

How come there are still Christians today? Let me tell you: Constantinople 717, Tours 732, Avignon 737, Vienna in 1539 and again in 1683. I like peace, but I also recognize that I wouldn't even exist today if it were not for people who stood up to the world's bullies and said, "Enough."

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Do you even know about how prior to the shelling that Israel was blocking food and supplies going into Gaza.

Gaza was in pitch black darkness, no food no fuel? Wake up.

Prior to the shelling? Get real. The shelling started even as the Israelis were evacuating Gaza. The Israelis pulled out of Gaza under fire even though they were giving that piece of Egypt back to the Palestinian/Egyptian residents. I'm embarrassed for you seeing that link to a site maintained by the Socialist Worker's Party. You should be more careful with what your google searches turn up.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You really need to clam down and try to find out what your talking about.
Because having this discussion on the Internet is a luxury. When someone takes you to school on this subject in person, you going to be standing there looking foolish.

Try to find out what is happening, because your information is somewhat lacking.

You crack me up there, buddy.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Pelathais maybe you should just chill out and do the homework instead of parroting Zionist rhetoric. Listen, Zionism is not Judaism.

Sad. So very sad, EB. But it's not too late for you. Try enrolling in some classes at a local community college. Just reading and completing the assignments will help you to learn to formulate an intelligent way of expressing yourself.

Again, what is it about the Jewish people in Gush Shalom that makes you think they want to "mop up Gaza with every man, woman and child..."? What is it about the liberal/left leaning newspaper Haaretz that makes you think it's editorial policy would support such a thing?

You see EB, Gush Shalom and Haaretz and millions of others of groups, individuals and businesses are what constitute the state of Israel. When you read something in Haaretz or on Gush Shalom's website do you get the impression that you are reading the words of genocidal maniacs? No, you don't.

You have found common ground with their thoughts. You have been moved by their pity. Now, why do you think them to be killers?

You were the one who opened with the blood libel. When I challenged you on that bigoted and anti-semitic charge you tried to show that you had reason to hate the people of Israel. Then finally, it all came crumbling down on you like a Palestinian school house wired with explosives by Hamas. Now we must pity you because Pelathais stood up to your bullying.