Hate Of Reformed Theology

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Acoustic

That God "ordains" some to Hell is a common misunderstanding of Reformed/Calvinist theology. God does not need to ordain any go to Hell as we are all already going to Hell.

It also does not say that God "arbitrarily" picks some to save. Anyone can see from a basic reading of God's Word that he is not arbitrary in any way.

I don't expect anyone who is not Reformed to become Reformed as it is really offense to our western way of thinking - to say that we have no choice in our salvation tears at everything we believe.

This was my reaction and the reaction of my wife and is the reaction of my non-reformed friends, yet after several years of fighting it I have come to taste the sweetness of what it means to be justified by God's grace - to know that none who are given to Christ will be lost and be able to rest (be still and know that I am God) in the Sabbath that is Jesus Christ.

I better stop now or I will keep on going.

SDG

nah. That's fine. Keep going.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Blume, not all who "buy into" the Sovereignty of God understand the "double predestination" idea of God damning people to hell. But if it were true, nor do I feel in a place to judge the Almighty. Who am I?

It is not whether we are judging God or not. But what the bible says about godd not willing that any should perish, and yet willing some will perish. God's word does not contradict truth. And no matter how it may be argued, God is contradicting Himself if He wills some be lost.

I too have a philosophical discomfort with the notion that God would select some for hell. But I take great comfort in that he elected me, he called to me, he showed grace to me.

To each his own, for sure, but I see no sense at all in the idea.

I'd flirt more with "New Calvinism" but even then, not really caring about fitting either label. I've learned much from my Calvinist brothers in the last year. Much. They've taught me a great deal about our gracious father. The idea of a mean tyrant is ironic, because it's a sharp contrast to how I saw God before. His work and act is that much more gracious.

I would say they perhaps can help us all with grace. If someone takes grace too far, they might have SOME points that are not that extreme that can help others. lol

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Acoustic

That God "ordains" some to Hell is a common misunderstanding of Reformed/Calvinist theology. God does not need to ordain any go to Hell as we are all already going to Hell.

According to Calvinism not really everyone was going to hell since God knew the end from the beginning and predestined some to heaven before their birth.

It also does not say that God "arbitrarily" picks some to save. Anyone can see from a basic reading of God's Word that he is not arbitrary in any way.

I never said it was arbitrary. But to know God purposely sends some to hell is the issue, and I will not accept that. As I told Socialite, it contradicts the fact that God does not will that any should perish. I can imagine the mental gymnastics that occur over that verse to get around the obvious. lol

I don't expect anyone who is not Reformed to become Reformed as it is really offense to our western way of thinking - to say that we have no choice in our salvation tears at everything we believe.

I see that this nothing to do with Western thought. Think of it. God is not wiling that any should perish, but he willingly predestines some to perish??? It flatly contradicts the word.

This was my reaction and the reaction of my wife and is the reaction of my non-reformed friends, yet after several years of fighting it I have come to taste the sweetness of what it means to be justified by God's grace - to know that none who are given to Christ will be lost and be able to rest (be still and know that I am God) in the Sabbath that is Jesus Christ.

I better stop now or I will keep on going.

SDG

To each his own. It is a free world. I respect your decision and belief. It's just not for me.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Acoustic

That God "ordains" some to Hell is a common misunderstanding of Reformed/Calvinist theology. God does not need to ordain any go to Hell as we are all already going to Hell.

It also does not say that God "arbitrarily" picks some to save. Anyone can see from a basic reading of God's Word that he is not arbitrary in any way.

I don't expect anyone who is not Reformed to become Reformed as it is really offense to our western way of thinking - to say that we have no choice in our salvation tears at everything we believe.

This was my reaction and the reaction of my wife and is the reaction of my non-reformed friends, yet after several years of fighting it I have come to taste the sweetness of what it means to be justified by God's grace - to know that none who are given to Christ will be lost and be able to rest (be still and know that I am God) in the Sabbath that is Jesus Christ.

I better stop now or I will keep on going.

SDG

How perfectly arrogant and self-centered of you and the rest of the elect!! What of the many that are destined to eternal damnation with no hope???? I don't believe Christ came just to give you that sweetness, rather to all. If He wills to choose some, He wills to choose ALL.

[aegsm76]

One thing has always bothered me about Reformed theology.
If God predestined everyone, why did we need a Savior?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Why do some Apostolics have such an extreme hatred for Reformed Theology? I read where one member of this forum used the term Reformed as almost a slander? Cannot an Apostolic be one God and still hold to the beliefs of Reformed Theology without being cast out?

Like I said, expand it to all that Jesus came to save, according to 1 Tim. 4:10, and we have some agreement.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

One thing has always bothered me about Reformed theology.
If God predestined everyone, why did we need a Savior?

Had He not come, nobody would be saved. Just because all will be saved from a sinking ship doesn't mean the rescuers remain on shore.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Blume, not all who "buy into" the Sovereignty of God understand the "double predestination" idea of God damning people to hell. But if it were true, nor do I feel in a place to judge the Almighty. Who am I?

I too have a philosophical discomfort with the notion that God would select some for hell. But I take great comfort in that he elected me, he called to me, he showed grace to me.

I'd flirt more with "New Calvinism" but even then, not really caring about fitting either label. I've learned much from my Calvinist brothers in the last year. Much. They've taught me a great deal about our gracious father. The idea of a mean tyrant is ironic, because it's a sharp contrast to how I saw God before. His work and act is that much more gracious.

It is gracious to save some, when he has the power and resources to save ALL???

[Acoustic]

Originally Posted by crakjak

How perfectly arrogant and self-centered of you and the rest of the elect!! What of the many that are destined to eternal damnation with no hope???? I don't believe Christ came just to give you that sweetness, rather to all. If He wills to choose some, He wills to choose ALL.

Are you a universalist? If so I can understand your problem with reformed theology.

I notice you have 1 Cor 15:22 as your tag line - do you believe all are saved? If not then how do you understand this scripture?

The very next verse says But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Notice that it is not ALL but those that BELONG to Christ. ie the ones he purchased with his blood. Also John 6:37 says "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." Indecently this was the verse I based my comment "I have come to taste the sweetness of what it means to be justified by God's grace - to know that none who are given to Christ will be lost and be able to rest (be still and know that I am God) in the Sabbath that is Jesus Christ."

Regarding your accusation of arrogance and self-centredness you either have absolutely no understanding of reformed theology or you are purposefully ignoring some of the basic premises. Christ-centredness, NOT self-centredness, is at the heart of reformed theology. Any reformed who was acting arrogant regarding their salvation really has no understanding of the doctrine of justification and when examined would be exposed as not having a correct understanding or reformed theology.
How could anyone who truly believes that while they were still an enemy of God, God sent His Son to die for them, when all they deserved was God's wrath, be arrogant?? The life of Paul is a perfect example of this.

SDG

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Acoustic

That God "ordains" some to Hell is a common misunderstanding of Reformed/Calvinist theology. God does not need to ordain any go to Hell as we are all already going to Hell.

It also does not say that God "arbitrarily" picks some to save. Anyone can see from a basic reading of God's Word that he is not arbitrary in any way.

I don't expect anyone who is not Reformed to become Reformed as it is really offense to our western way of thinking - to say that we have no choice in our salvation tears at everything we believe.

This was my reaction and the reaction of my wife and is the reaction of my non-reformed friends, yet after several years of fighting it I have come to taste the sweetness of what it means to be justified by God's grace - to know that none who are given to Christ will be lost and be able to rest (be still and know that I am God) in the Sabbath that is Jesus Christ.

I better stop now or I will keep on going.

SDG

This is where my heart has been turned as of late as well.

I can't fully explain it, nor feel like I have to subscribe to an exhaustive, systematic Calvinism or every letter of the TULIP... but what I keep seeing in the Story is how God is working in this way. It's a comfort.