Glorying In Sin

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

Good topic! I understand the self loathing at our weekness..I know all to well in my own life, the short comings, the times of anger, saying things I know are not conducive to a Christian etc.

I long to be right and do right, every day, and it does get frustrating when I fall, we all are usually far more educated then obedient.

For those who have been abused, it is VERY difficult to separate the good and right from the wrong, seeing as how the two grew together...sometimes in trying to pull the bad off the good...some of the good gets ripped out as well. For example, Holiness, and Godliness are Biblical and right...same with separation from the world. When a person is taught these things in principle...that is well and right. when there arer hard fast laws made off the principle and then in turn used to beat down a person..that is wrong.

I have been on both sides of the fence...and while I totally understand the error of many modern day preachers when they attemp to teach Grace...there is the other side of the coin that refuses to teach or expound the maifold graces of God and His total willingness to love and forgive us if we confess and repent. Once again, the good and the bad.

In my opinion we need good doctrine...we also need the Spirit...and the glue that seems to hold these two together is love...and from what I have observed, love is an ever decreasing element in many churches...regardless of being strict or liberal. All to often we are not willing to bear one anothers burdens and really be tender hearted toward one another.

Love covers a multitude of sins...so what happens when love diminishes? Seems pretty easy to figure out. Maybe I am crazy, but if we would focus on Jesus...love Him, and love each other the way we are supposed to...maybe many of these agendas on both sides would simply disolve...we would ask Him waht He thinks instead of proclaiming what we think....

Are you perfect?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

AMEN!!!

Holiness is much much than the "standards" .... because you can easily accomodate those fleshly things.

And... how much more difficult it is to keep holiness of heart than a standard of dress... so this is really what Jesus was teaching, inward holiness. For when the heart is holy, it will be manifested in the outward appearance in ways that will set it apart from the rest of the world that we live in. Holiness was NEVER meant to be mandated, but it was to change us as directed from the Holy Spirit living within us.

I think I have a higher standard of heart living now that I have left the Pentecostal ranks than before. Things that I would do then without thinking twice, now leave me feeling that the Lord would not be pleased. Before I would think... the preacher or pastor or my parents would not be pleased... now, my first thought is, what would the Lord Jesus think of this!

Wow! Completely revolutionizes what you do, say, and think when you allow the Lord Jesus into your heart and hold up your activities before HIS eyes to see if He is pleased.

I believe this is true holiness of heart. Walking to please the Lord Jesus in all things, and not trying to be a cookie cutter, look-alike man-pleasing Christian.

AMEN

[AreYouReady?]

We don't have to attain perfection to simply love
1. God and
2. our neighbor.
If we do these two things, we have fulfilled all the law.

If we do these two things, Christ through the Holy Ghost, will perfect us.

If we think we can perfect ourselves.....

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Are you perfect?

I think the Lemon made it clear in his post that he's not. I strugle with some of the same things. I don't have gross sin in my life (anymore) but I still struggle with brief moments of weakness. I supervise over 400 employees directly accountable to me, and they act like kids half the time. I'm amazed at how immature adults act. Anyway occasionally I get frustrated with a situation and snap at work or home. By "snap" I don't mean a long tirade, but just a short sharp remark (not profanity). Sometimes (many times) its not even the words I say, but how I say them. Even if others don't pick up on my anger/frustration, I know that in that momet I just failed my Lord. I allowed anger to overcome me, and I sinned. I feel like the worlds biggest fool. I ask God to forgive me, and help me not to do this anylonger. Granted since God revealed this problem to me its greatly improved. My point in using this example isn't that I'm going to be lost over such short comings (I believe God's grace is great and the blood of Christ continually cleanses the faithful repentant believer in all his shortcomings as God works out progressive sanctification throughout our lives)...my point is that I can't just be happy or not bothered by sn in my life just because I'm "saved anyway." Yet this is the attitude o many christians, they're not bothered about sin in their lives or partaking in "moderated" worldliness because of grace.

The point of my post is that we should all actively seek to grow in Christ like holiness throughout our lives, not reach a point where we feel we now understand grace so much so that living holy is put on the back burner, which is exactly what I see at times from Christians, both in internet conversation and otherwise. If anyone else is talking in terms of standards, I'm not. I no longer even attend a OP church, I attend an Evangelical Bible Church, but one reason I ended up there is because when I was in a church that was ex-upc (1 step doctrine, no standards) there was such a move twards worldliness and charismatic doctrine that I had t go into th evangelical movement to find a church that emphasized a personal relationship and daily walk with Christ.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

The point of my post is that we should all actively seek to grow in Christ like holiness throughout our lives, not reach a point where we feel we now understand grace so much so that living holy is put on the back burner, which is exactly what I see at times from Christians, both in internet conversation and otherwise. If anyone else is talking in terms of standards, I'm not. I no longer even attend a OP church, I attend an Evangelical Bible Church, but one reason I ended up there is because when I was in a church that was ex-upc (1 step doctrine, no standards) there was such a move twards worldliness and charismatic doctrine that I had t go into th evangelical movement to find a church that emphasized a personal relationship and daily walk with Christ.

I think that is where part of the problem lies....the definition of 'holiness'.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I think that is where part of the problem lies....the definition of 'holiness'.

I still associate it with a list of a dozen or more things we either start or stop doing based upon an agreed on "identity" and "look".

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I think the Lemon made it clear in his post that he's not. I strugle with some of the same things. I don't have gross sin in my life (anymore) but I still struggle with brief moments of weakness. I supervise over 400 employees directly accountable to me, and they act like kids half the time. I'm amazed at how immature adults act. Anyway occasionally I get frustrated with a situation and snap at work or home. By "snap" I don't mean a long tirade, but just a short sharp remark (not profanity). Sometimes (many times) its not even the words I say, but how I say them. Even if others don't pick up on my anger/frustration, I know that in that momet I just failed my Lord. I allowed anger to overcome me, and I sinned. I feel like the worlds biggest fool. I ask God to forgive me, and help me not to do this anylonger. Granted since God revealed this problem to me its greatly improved. My point in using this example isn't that I'm going to be lost over such short comings (I believe God's grace is great and the blood of Christ continually cleanses the faithful repentant believer in all his shortcomings as God works out progressive sanctification throughout our lives)...my point is that I can't just be happy or not bothered by sn in my life just because I'm "saved anyway." Yet this is the attitude o many christians, they're not bothered about sin in their lives or partaking in "moderated" worldliness because of grace.

The point of my post is that we should all actively seek to grow in Christ like holiness throughout our lives, not reach a point where we feel we now understand grace so much so that living holy is put on the back burner, which is exactly what I see at times from Christians, both in internet conversation and otherwise. If anyone else is talking in terms of standards, I'm not. I no longer even attend a OP church, I attend an Evangelical Bible Church, but one reason I ended up there is because when I was in a church that was ex-upc (1 step doctrine, no standards) there was such a move twards worldliness and charismatic doctrine that I had t go into th evangelical movement to find a church that emphasized a personal relationship and daily walk with Christ.

But Michael said we need to be. Can you find an example here of what you are talking about and Post it? Are we talking standards?

[BeenThinkin]

Does God measure "Big" sins and "Little" sins, or is Sin just Sin with Him, ...... any transgression of His Law?

Now I'm not speaking of how sin affects us, or the affect it has on those around us. Just simply asking, with God, isn't Sin, Sin and it takes no more grace, for God, to forgive us regardless of the Sin?

Been Thinkin

[Praxeas]

All these amens but nobody seems to know or agree on the meaning of holiness

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

One is easy believism (anything goes)... the other is growing in grace as one is conformed into the image of Jesus. Is that what you're saying?

In the mean time... while we're striving to be conformed into Christ's image... don't we stand in His imputed righteous perfection?

That is exactly the heresy. If we are in sin no we are not just automatically considered to be righteous because Christ is righteous.

We are only righteous if we are righteous even as he is righteous.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 1 John 3:7

In truth this is the error that Apostolic New Testament Christians have swallowed en mass and is destroying the harvest at this time.