Do unbelievers belong in the assembly? - Page 3

KeptByTheWord · #21 11-20-2013, 02:58 PM

I think there needs to be a balance in what we do. If we allow unbelievers to come into the assembly, and attempt to share in the meaningful parts of the service, without making a commitment to the Lord, it would be better to disciple, and teach them apart from the general assembly.

However, you cannot exclude the fact, that many times the Spirit of the Lord can move where people are gathered together, and that unbeliever/sinner comes face to face with the Lord, and is touched and changed by the Spirit of the Lord.

So, I think we should understand and be led by the Spirit in this, and that there should be no "set" rule, but if the assembly was operating in the gifts of the spirit, with body ministry present, and a sincere desire to allow the Spirit to minister to them, the needs of the unbeliever, and the believer would be met in a way that ONLY the HG can do.

We should never set limits on God, and the HG because we know how it can dramatically change lives with just one touch of His hand. We MUST be led by the Spirit in each individual situation, because if not, then legalism takes over, and then it is hard for the Spirit to do its work.

KeptByTheWord · #22 11-20-2013, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

A little bit off topic here. How are tongues a sign for unbelievers?

Something visible or audible that they can hear/see, that would help cause them to believe...

TGBTG · #23 11-20-2013, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1 Corinthians 14:22 ESV

Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

1 Corinthians 14:23 ESV

If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

1 Corinthians 14:24 ESV

But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

A little bit off topic here. How are tongues a sign for unbelievers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Something visible or audible that they can hear/see, that would help cause them to believe...

But unbelievers cannot understand tongues, right?

Isn't that why Paul said an unbeliever might think we are out of our mind if said unbeliever saw a bunch of believers speaking in tongues? So how does speaking in tongues help them believe?

Esaias · #24 11-20-2013, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

But unbelievers cannot understand tongues, right?

Isn't that why Paul said an unbeliever might think we are out of our mind if said unbeliever saw a bunch of believers speaking in tongues? So how does speaking in tongues help them believe?

With stammering lips and another tongue will I speak to this people, yet for all they will not hear me.

Wherefore tongues are a sign for them that believe not.

That is to say, if everyone is peaking in tongues with no interpreter, then the unbeliever will not become convinced, but will conclude the church is insane and off their rocker. IE they will not 'believe' or hearken unto God. Thus, tongues becomes a witness or sign against them, as per the OT citation.

Paul would rather they prophesied, so as to produce belief, not just speak in tongues (with no interpretation) which will likely not produce belief.

phareztamar · #25 11-20-2013, 04:27 PM

Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Gee, I dunno...do sick people belong in a hospital?

Esaias · #26 11-20-2013, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phareztamar

Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

Gee, I dunno...do sick people belong in a hospital?

Is the church a hospital?

Did Jesus say for us to go forth and build churches so the sick can come in if they want to and get better?

Or did he say for us to go forth and TELL THEM THE GOOD NEWS, heal them, and receive them as members of the church?

TGBTG · #27 11-20-2013, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

With stammering lips and another tongue will I speak to this people, yet for all they will not hear me.

Wherefore tongues are a sign for them that believe not.

That is to say, if everyone is peaking in tongues with no interpreter, then the unbeliever will not become convinced, but will conclude the church is insane and off their rocker.

I get that part. Interpretation is needed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

IE they will not 'believe' or hearken unto God. Thus, tongues becomes a witness or sign against them, as per the OT citation.

Paul would rather they prophesied, so as to produce belief, not just speak in tongues (with no interpretation) which will likely not produce belief.

1 Cor 14 "...but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."

Based on what you wrote, it seems you're saying prophesying serves unbelievers?

Esaias · #28 11-20-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGBTG

1 Cor 14 "...but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."

Based on what you wrote, it seems you're saying prophesying serves unbelievers?

No. I'm saying prophesying can produce belief, therefore it is a sign for them that believe.

Praxeas · #29 11-20-2013, 05:11 PM

So clearly Paul was ok with unbelievers in our midst...

Esaias · #30 11-20-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So clearly Paul was ok with unbelievers in our midst...

Paul's statement indicates unbelievers being in the assembly was an exception, not the rule. He said 'IF one comes in' etc. Thus, while unbelievers were not unilaterally excluded from all meetings whatsoever at all times, it was nevertheless RARE for an unbeliever to come into the assembly.

They certainly had no concept of the assembly as being the primary place for evangelistic efforts. That was reserved for 'out there'.