Obey them that have the rule over you

[ILG]

It's amazing how twisted some of the scriptures have gotten based on tradition.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

It's amazing how twisted some of the scriptures have gotten based on tradition.

Yes, really true!

[Esaias]

Paul was ready to offer a "proof of Christ speaking" in him to the Corinthians who doubted his authority and wisdom. He didn't offer denominational "credentials" as proof, though. Phoenix is right, the power is in the Word. Even if it comes from the mouths of babes and sucklings...

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Paul was ready to offer a "proof of Christ speaking" in him to the Corinthians who doubted his authority and wisdom. He didn't offer denominational "credentials" as proof, though. Phoenix is right, the power is in the Word. Even if it comes from the mouths of babes and sucklings...

1 Cor. 2:4 "And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of men's wisdom, but in demonstration of the spirit and of power, that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."

Powerful stuff right there!

[Praxeas]

Obey then that pull the wool over your eyes?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Obey then that pull the wool over your eyes?

Lol.....good one!!!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Obey then that pull the wool over your eyes?

Thanks for your wooly ...oops... worthy contribution to this subject Prax ... lol!

[good samaritan]

I am glad to have pastors in my life. The labels and the way we use terms may be a little different, but I am glad that I can submit myself to another. If someone is doing something to jeapordize the soul of you are your family they shouldn't be in your life, but if they love and care about you then probably you should appreciate the influence they have. We live in a generation of rebels who don't want anyone telling them what they should do.

I wish there was a poll done for those who submitted to God fearing leadership and those who think that their salvation is personal and everyone else should stay out. Which do you think would be the most prosperous in their life? We all are following someone's influence in our life so we might as well get use to the fact that we don't have complete control. Follow good leaders and avoid the wolves in sheeps clothing.

P.S. I think it is safe to go by KJV translation (using a little common sense) and you don't have to weaken it down any. Hopefully with your children at home obey is not such a bad word.

[good samaritan]

I believe that most who pastor a church or elders wichever you call it know that a title and a position doesn't get you very far with people. Trust is earned. When people learn to trust that you care for them and want only to help them in their relationship with God then they will decide the leaders they allow in their life. If you are serving God you will have Godly influence in your life(I call them pastors)!!!! When a person is hungry for God they look for any place they can possibly glean from.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I believe that most who pastor a church or elders wichever you call it know that a title and a position doesn't get you very far with people. Trust is earned. When people learn to trust that you care for them and want only to help them in their relationship with God then they will decide the leaders they allow in their life. If you are serving God you will have Godly influence in your life(I call them pastors)!!!! When a person is hungry for God they look for any place they can possibly glean from.

Bro. GS - I appreciate the sweet spirit that you always share your thoughts with. Please understand that thread was not started with a "pastor bashing" discussion in mind.

I truly believe with all my heart, and perhaps more than ever before, in worthy servant-led leadership in the church. Sadly, there is so much leadership today by those who feel "called" to the ministry (or set in place by their fathers) who feel "called" to a position with perks and benefits, and want no part being the servant in ministry that Jesus spoke of.

I hope that more discussion on the subject will open the eyes of those who think a pastor or person in leadership can act as a dictator towards those who he is leading. We certainly don't see a dictatorship/pope type leadership example anywhere in the NT church. Instead we see Paul speaking of working with his own hands, traveling from church to church, experiencing persecution, and exhorting believers to follow his faith as a leader, setting up elders, deacons, and bishops in the churches to lead the church by example.

Bro. GS, from reading your posts, I sense your heartfelt desire to lead your church towards a more powerful relationship with the Lord, and believe that from what I have read of your posts, that your desire is to further the kingdom of God, and not rule as a dictator, setting up your own personal church kingdom. God Bless