Does God Still Kill People (Ananias and Sapphira)?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by jediwill83

Interesting story about William Branham.

Apparently when he started getting off into some "questionable " doctrine, before the wreck him and his wife had, some people had a prayer meeting where there was supposedly a word from God where "God" said that" He was removing the prophet from the land to save him and to save this nation."

So a bit anecdotal but there it is....a little later him and his wife were involved in the wreck that took his life after hospitalization.

That prophecy was given by Kenneth Hagin and the story goes he put it in writing in the hand of Gordon Lindsy who was the leader of the Christ For The Nations Bible College.

[houston]

Some doubt that An and Saph were believers. Herod was not a believer.
Does God kill today? When He decides He is done with your games He will
take you home. (sin unto death)

[Michael The Disciple]

So are there ANY verses that indicate ELOHIM would NOT kill people in the New Testament era?

[Dordrecht]

What about the Lord's supper?

Participating in the wrong way and attitude could cause death and/or sickness.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

What about the Lord's supper?

Participating in the wrong way and attitude could cause death and/or sickness.

Let's take it even further:

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
(1 Corinthians 11:27-32)

Looks like there are two consequences to partaking of the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner (ie by being rude and insensitive and uncharitable to the other members of the Body):

The first is a spiritual effect, "damnation". Obviously, if you aren't loving the brethren you are in danger of hellfire.

The second is "many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." In other words, by allowing the Lord's Supper to be abused, a situation is created in the church where many are weak, and get sick, and some even die. Not so much that God is individually striking individual offenders down with death so much but rather God has withdrawn the presence of Divine Health from the assembly so that members are falling victim to illness and death "before their time".

So how the individual members act affects the overall life and vitality of the whole assembly.

It should be noticed that these effects are considered by the apostle to be the Lord chastening (correcting) His church, not necessarily dumping His wrath on the church. So physical illness and even death is occasionally used by God as a corrective measure to purify His Bride.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Let's take it even further:

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
(1 Corinthians 11:27-32)

Looks like there are two consequences to partaking of the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner (ie by being rude and insensitive and uncharitable to the other members of the Body):

The first is a spiritual effect, "damnation". Obviously, if you aren't loving the brethren you are in danger of hellfire.

The second is "many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." In other words, by allowing the Lord's Supper to be abused, a situation is created in the church where many are weak, and get sick, and some even die. Not so much that God is individually striking individual offenders down with death so much but rather God has withdrawn the presence of Divine Health from the assembly so that members are falling victim to illness and death "before their time".

So how the individual members act affects the overall life and vitality of the whole assembly.

It should be noticed that these effects are considered by the apostle to be the Lord chastening (correcting) His church, not necessarily dumping His wrath on the church. So physical illness and even death is occasionally used by God as a corrective measure to purify His Bride.

And this leads me to wonder about the prevalence of bad health, cancer, other sicknesses, and infirmity and even death that seems to be increasing in frequency among churches.

Not saying every instance of ill health or death is a sign of God's immediate judgment against sin, just saying the overall trend is rather.... alarming.

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So are there ANY verses that indicate ELOHIM would NOT kill people in the New Testament era?

There are none I can think of.

And how about the authority of the Lord's apostle?

1st Corinthians 5:1-5

"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Paul judged the man who had his father's wife, was that his own mother? The man was given over to satan, (excommunicated?) For the destruction (death?) of his flesh, now that is a judgment as well, I can't imagine being handed over to satan! Lord have mercy on me! Maybe something like what happened to Job.

Paul also handed Hymaneus and Alexander over to satan

1st Timothy 1:20

"of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Paul wasn't playing was he? I wonder how many Christians would want Paul to oversee their congregation today!!

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

There are none I can think of.
And how about the authority of the Lord's apostle?
1st Corinthians 5:1-5
"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
Paul judged the man who had his father's wife, was that his own mother? The man was given over to satan, (excommunicated?) For the destruction (death?) of his flesh, now that is a judgment as well, I can't imagine being handed over to satan! Lord have mercy on me! Maybe something like what happened to Job.
Paul also handed Hymaneus and Alexander over to satan
1st Timothy 1:20
"of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."
Paul wasn't playing was he? I wonder how many Christians would want Paul to oversee their congregation today!!

Hello!

We need to go back and examine the first commandment with a curse:
“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, ‘Of every tree of the
garden thou may freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and
evil, thou shall not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shall
surely die’.”

God knew man would eat of the prohibited fruit, for He said, “…on the day
that you eat…” We already know that whatever God says would and has
come to pass. He spoke six times, and six times something happened: light
was created; the waters from above were divided from the waters from
below; the dry appeared and fruit with trees and herbs appeared; then the
stars, the moon and the sun were created; fish were created in the waters,
and fowl to fly in the air, etc. Each time God spoke, whatsoever He spoke
came to pass. Is it any wonder that death would come if man disobeyed?
Does God truly kill man? Each time a person died, did that person not break
one of God’s commands? Listen.

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before
you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou
and thy seed may live:”

When a man chooses evil, he incurs God’s curse, and he will die: but listen
still: man also brings the curse upon his seed! Or will God not visit man’s sin
upon his third and fourth generation? But you will say that God is not equal.

“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins, and YOU SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the
promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as
many as the Lord our God shall call.” Are you listening? If God would visit
man’s sin unto the fourth generation, is it any wonder that God would visit
his PROMISE unto the fourth generation? Choose LIFE!

Brother Villa

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by TyronePalmer

There are none I can think of.

And how about the authority of the Lord's apostle?

1st Corinthians 5:1-5

"It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Paul judged the man who had his father's wife, was that his own mother? The man was given over to satan, (excommunicated?) For the destruction (death?) of his flesh, now that is a judgment as well, I can't imagine being handed over to satan! Lord have mercy on me! Maybe something like what happened to Job.

Paul also handed Hymaneus and Alexander over to satan

1st Timothy 1:20

"of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I delivered to Satan that they may learn not to blaspheme."

Paul wasn't playing was he? I wonder how many Christians would want Paul to oversee their congregation today!!

Good post Bro. Not only would they not want Paul over them, they would not want him in the Church PERIOD!

[jediwill83]

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before
you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou
and thy seed may live:”

When a man chooses evil, he incurs God’s curse, and he will die: but listen
still: man also brings the curse upon his seed! Or will God not visit man’s sin
upon his third and fourth generation? But you will say that God is not equal.

“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins, and YOU SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the
promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as
many as the Lord our God shall call.” Are you listening? If God would visit
man’s sin unto the fourth generation, is it any wonder that God would visit
his PROMISE unto the fourth generation? Choose LIFE!

Brother Villa[/QUOTE]



Man is responsible for his OWN sin.

Ezekiel 18


1The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,

2What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

3As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

5But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,

6And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,

7And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;

8He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,

9Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.

10If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,

11And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,

12Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,

13Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

14Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

15That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,

16Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,

17That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

18As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity. The Soul who Sins will Die

19Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

29Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.