I'm leaving the principles of the doctrine...! - Page 3

revrandy · #21 09-13-2007, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

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We have to part ways on this one, bro. lol. I believe we CAN have it in this life. In fact, Spiritual Maturity is the entire purpose for this life.

I agree here...Spiritual Maturity is not perfection it is growing in the Spirit..

Perfection is something we will strive for and yet never attain... because humanity and perfection are less than perfect for each other..

RevBuddy · #22 09-13-2007, 11:06 AM

Mfblume,

Oh well, it was good while it lasted...

...but I thought the subject was attaining a final level of spiritual maturity...I understand maturing in the Lord...that process should take place every day, but to attain the maturity of perfection, a final place of maturity here, I just don't think so...

revrandy · #23 09-13-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Mfblume,

Oh well, it was good while it lasted...

...but I thought the subject was attaining a final level of spiritual maturity...I understand maturing in the Lord...that process should take place every day, but to attain the maturity of perfection, a final place of maturity here, I just don't think so...

I think we are all saying the same thing... just in different ways...

mfblume · #24 09-13-2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Mfblume,

Oh well, it was good while it lasted...

...but I thought the subject was attaining a final level of spiritual maturity...I understand maturing in the Lord...that process should take place every day, but to attain the maturity of perfection, a final place of maturity here, I just don't think so...

This is indeed a whole issue in itself. But walking after the Spirit is spiritual maturity, and when we do so, we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. I do not think the bible dnagles carrots on sticks in front of us, that we can never attain.

Bro., we're dead to sin. If we knew Romans 6 through 8's message, and how that means we should not live any longer to the lusts of the flesh, we would have total victory.

I think the variation on beliefs in this issue circle around whether or not one believes Paul merely spoke of his past in Romans 7 or his then-present condition. Since Romans 7:24-25 shows the remedy to the dillemma of inability to do what one would, it is speaking solely of his past. Paul got over the dillemma of not doing what he would. This point is where many simply disagree.

mfblume · #25 09-13-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

I agree here...Spiritual Maturity is not perfection it is growing in the Spirit..

Perfection is something we will strive for and yet never attain... because humanity and perfection are less than perfect for each other..

But that is the reason we are taught to not walk after flesh (humanity) but after the Spirit. Paul was crucified with Christ. Yet Christ lived in Paul. And that gave way to Paul's great success.

SDG · #26 09-13-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

But that is the reason we are taught to not walk after flesh (humanity) but after the Spirit. Paul was crucified with Christ. Yet Christ lived in Paul. And that gave way to Paul's great success.

And as great as he was ... he had a thorn in his flesh.

revrandy · #27 09-13-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

And as great as he was ... he had a thorn in his flesh.

This is what I absolutly love about scripture... it does not hide the "thorns"...

Romans 7:17-19 (King James Version)
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

revrandy · #28 09-13-2007, 11:17 AM

With perfection comes praise... and who gets the Glory?

Paul, I think understood this completely..

RevBuddy · #29 09-13-2007, 11:18 AM

Mfblume,

Now you're missing the whole point of the thread...NOT to get trapped in the minutiae...

I believe we agree...you and I are spiritually mature because we are maturing spiritually...how about that?

mfblume · #30 09-13-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

And as great as he was ... he had a thorn in his flesh.

That did not hinder him from walking after the Spirit, though. Brethren, walking after the Spirit allows one to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

THAT is spiritual maturity, or perfection. So long as one walks after the Spirit, one will not sin.

In fact, Dan, that episode of Paul's prayer regarding his thorn was all the more reason he was able to come to a place where he relied upon the Spirit. It was a thorn in his flesh. Paul learned that through weakness of his flesh he is strong in the Spirit. The Spirit of glory rests on those who suffer in the flesh for Christ. Hence, 2 Cor 4 taught that Paul carried about the dying of Jesus in his body so that he could manifest the life of Jesus in his ministry.