Dividing over Oneness

[Steve Epley]

Some of the article was not historically correct the majority of the Oneness men there were not black however Bishop Haywood according to history did much of the speaking because of his eloquence. I wonder how much research is really put in by an outsider? I think some just scroll the net and do surface research.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sam

I have read/heard that there about 500 million Pentecostals/Charismatics in the world.

That 500 million (or 600 million like someone used in this thread) do not all go to Pentecostal/Charismatic churches. Many would be members of denominations but they have been baptized in the Spirit. Some do go to Charismatic/Pentecostal churches but have not personally received the HGB but believe in the experience. This would be like the Methodist Church group in Chile. I don't think the 500 million are active tongue talkers.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by AGAPE

One Lord. One Faith. One Baptism. One God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Trinity Is A Damnable Doctrine From The Pits Of Hell!!!!!!!!

I have always advocated a Oneness view of God, since I was 11 years old and first picked up a Bible to try and figure out what everyone was talking about. That's been more than 35 years now. I just say that to introduce to myself to you.

That being said, I find your statement here reflects poorly on both your screen name and on your understanding of the "Doctrine of the Trinity." I may be wrong, it's certainly possible that in 35+ years that I have missed something.

But can you demonstrate, or "prove" the assertion that you made? Can you really show me that "the Doctrine of the Trinity" had its origins "in the pits of hell?" Are you even aware of the historical development of the doctrine? I recommend 2 book excellent books by David Bernard: Oneness and Trinity, A.D. 100-300 and Trinitarian Controversy in the Fourth Century. You can get them as a part of the complete works of DKB in electronic format at: the PPH.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I have always advocated a Oneness view of God, since I was 11 years old and first picked up a Bible to try and figure out what everyone was talking about. That's been more than 35 years now. I just say that to introduce to myself to you.

That being said, I find your statement here reflects poorly on both your screen name and on your understanding of the "Doctrine of the Trinity." I may be wrong, it's certainly possible that in 35+ years that I have missed something.

But can you demonstrate, or "prove" the assertion that you made? Can you really show me that "the Doctrine of the Trinity" had its origins "in the pits of hell?" Are you even aware of the historical development of the doctrine? I recommend 2 book excellent books by David Bernard: Oneness and Trinity, A.D. 100-300 and Trinitarian Controversy in the Fourth Century. You can get them as a part of the complete works of DKB in electronic format at: the PPH.

Please elaborate? I believe some doctrines are inspired by demons. And this is on of them.

[Ferd]

One thing you can say without question is the doctrine of the trinity has prevented 2000 years worth of christians to die without baptism in Jesus' name.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Please elaborate? I believe some doctrines are inspired by demons. And this is on of them.

Thanks, Elder. But my question first: "Can you demonstrate, or 'prove' that the Doctrine of the Trinity has its origins 'in the pits of hell'?" Imagine that you had that as an assignment in a Bible College class. How would you start? What can you show for evidence?

And remember, I'm already on your side of the Oneness argument, so I'll be a sympathetic listener.

I've got the same "challenge" out on another thread concerning John 3:5. I said that the statement "born of the water" in that verse does not refer to water baptism. My point being, Acts 2:38 contains the "whole package" salvation message, but John 3:5 does not. Again, I'm already on the side that says the Bible clearly teaches "baptism in Jesus name for the remission of sins," so you'll have a sympathetic ear for your argument on this one as well.

Let me tack this on: my counter arguments will rely heavily upon the books I mentioned in the earlier post:

"I recommend 2 excellent books by David Bernard: Oneness and Trinity, A.D. 100-300 and Trinitarian Controversy in the Fourth Century. You can get them as a part of the complete works of DKB in electronic format at: the PPH."

[kenod]

Originally Posted by pelathais

But my question first: "Can you demonstrate, or 'prove' that the Doctrine of the Trinity has its origins 'in the pits of hell'?" Imagine that you had that as an assignment in a Bible College class. How would you start? What can you show for evidence?

And remember, I'm already on your side of the Oneness argument, so I'll be a sympathetic listener.

I'm sorry this discussion petered out ... I was following it with interest.
Just let me throw this in: There was some argy bargy going on among Callistus, Hippolytus and Sabellius early in the 3rd century. Sabellius gets branded a heretic by the other two, both of who seem to be far from representing the Spirit of Christ.

I have not seen much historical documentary evidence linking the many gods of Roman society to the doctrine of the Trinity. However, we do know that as the church became more politicised, especially after Constantine, that the 'three distinct persons' gradually came to dominate. It is difficult to esacpe the conclusion that this was influenced by the cultural background of the times in which they lived.

Probably more easily detectable are the influences of Greek philosophy on the develpment of Christian thought in the early church. This has been explored by a number of authors, including Trinitarian ones (New Dictionary of Christian Theology). "As a result Christianity was removed from its roots in primitive Christianity and Hebrew modes of thought and became much an exercise in abstract thought and speculative metaphysics" (Is God a Trinity - David Kemball-Cook).