Or one that I've pondered recently: If there is a hell, how just could that be? Eternal punishment for life lived in at most a century? How is that just?
Doesn't God give everyone a space to repent?
Didn't Jesus go preach to those in hell (the holding place after death, not eternal judgement) and took captivity captive?
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Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
I think the "relationship" aspect has more potential than anything else. God in the OT was nothing if not a God of contradictions. Even amidst His own strict rules and laws, He would step beyond them if a person or group of people turned to Him.
Maybe its a controversial statement, but aren't Jews more of a religious persuasion and culture than race? That is, anyone who converts to Judaism, is essentially a Jew. Or am I wrong on that point?
Regardless, in the OT, God showed mercy to people outside of the Jews, IF they turned to Him. E.g., Ninevah, Ruth, Rahab, etc. (Were the Ninevans Jews or Heathens? Were they heathens only because they didn't worship God?)
And, if everyone came from Adam, then essentially everyone started out with the same free will to choose God, and by the choices they made or their ancestors made, they ended up in a different place. I don't see in scripture where God set aside a little group from the very beginning, and said, "I'm only going to love you, everyone else I will hate." No, people set themselves apart, like Cain and Esau.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
I think the "relationship" aspect has more potential than anything else. God in the OT was nothing if not a God of contradictions. Even amidst His own strict rules and laws, He would step beyond them if a person or group of people turned to Him.
Maybe its a controversial statement, but aren't Jews more of a religious persuasion and culture than race? That is, anyone who converts to Judaism, is essentially a Jew. Or am I wrong on that point?
Regardless, in the OT, God showed mercy to people outside of the Jews, IF they turned to Him. E.g., Ninevah, Ruth, Rahab, etc. (Were the Ninevans Jews or Heathens? Were they heathens only because they didn't worship God?)
And, if everyone came from Adam, then essentially everyone started out with the same free will to choose God, and by the choices they made or their ancestors made, they ended up in a different place. I don't see in scripture where God set aside a little group from the very beginning, and said, "I'm only going to love you, everyone else I will hate." No, people set themselves apart, like Cain and Esau.
This is very good Abigail and is part of what I was thinking in regard to Eric's question.
I didn't get into this though last evening because I wasn't sure just how to present it in a way he - whose 2nd languge is English and is still learning and who is also a very new believer (16 yrs old) --- would be able to understand and comprehend.
He's a smart boy and he's doing great learning our language but some of this is a little complex in communicating to someone like him.
Thanks for articulating so well.
__________________ Smiles & Blessings.... ~Felicity Welsh~ (surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
I respect you but you didn't answer my question... I personally believe it is unanswerable and was posting it as an example. Even in your post above, the Jews had a choice on an individual level whether to serve God or not. The other people didn't... and to say that those people would recognize the true God after his people had slaughtered them and taken their women and children to be used as slaves, well, I'm not so sure.
My answer to him would be did not "God" raise such a people of multi-color?
The United States of America to defeat the greatest Jew killer of all-time.
Adolf Hitler.
God made a promise to Abraham that his seed would be the chosen.
It came out of the relationship he had with God.
If any nation would humble itself and turn towards the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
He would heal their people and their land.
In the old and new testement it came down to a relationship with God.
Not sure if it is an answer he can accept but is my thoughts.
Thanks for all your comments bro.
It's not so much that he wouldn't "accept". It's just that he's so new to the Christian faith and trying to explain this in a way that makes sense and that will satisfy his need to know why our God would act in this way.
I think that part of what I need to do is point out that as much as God is a God of judgment and war He's also a God so rich in mercy and grace and kindness and love .......... and emphasize the way that he gave people ample opportunity time and time again to repent and turn to Him.
And the fact that there is punishment in regard to disobeying the law and commands of God.
This is all part of whatever answer he's given I think.
I told him I was going to get some contribution of ideas from others before I talked to him more about it.
Thanks to everyone who's contributed.
I'm still hoping for more input and perspective on this.
__________________ Smiles & Blessings.... ~Felicity Welsh~ (surname courtesy of Jim Yohe)
It's not so much that he wouldn't "accept". It's just that he's so new to the Christian faith and trying to explain this in a way that makes sense and that will satisfy his need to know why our God would act in this way.
I think that part of what I need to do is point out that as much as God is a God of judgment and war He's also a God so rich in mercy and grace and kindness and love .......... and emphasize the way that he gave people ample opportunity time and time again to repent and turn to Him.
And the fact that there is punishment in regard to disobeying the law and commands of God.
This is all part of whatever answer he's given I think.
I told him I was going to get some contribution of ideas from others before I talked to him more about it.
Thanks to everyone who's contributed.
I'm still hoping for more input and perspective on this.
It is a hard question to answer for a new convert. I would be very careful as well. My comments were more geared towards answering comments made on the thread...
I think the "relationship" aspect has more potential than anything else. God in the OT was nothing if not a God of contradictions. Even amidst His own strict rules and laws, He would step beyond them if a person or group of people turned to Him.
Maybe its a controversial statement, but aren't Jews more of a religious persuasion and culture than race? That is, anyone who converts to Judaism, is essentially a Jew. Or am I wrong on that point?
Regardless, in the OT, God showed mercy to people outside of the Jews, IF they turned to Him. E.g., Ninevah, Ruth, Rahab, etc. (Were the Ninevans Jews or Heathens? Were they heathens only because they didn't worship God?)
And, if everyone came from Adam, then essentially everyone started out with the same free will to choose God, and by the choices they made or their ancestors made, they ended up in a different place. I don't see in scripture where God set aside a little group from the very beginning, and said, "I'm only going to love you, everyone else I will hate." No, people set themselves apart, like Cain and Esau.
Yes, Abi...as I understand it, they are Hebrew by reason of birth, a Jew by reason of religious belief...and good post btw.
As for the subject at hand, Felicity, I have thought about it most of the day and am no further ahead with an answer than I was at 3:00 this morning.
I just keep thinking about the Cross...what a different world it was before God made Himself a body and came to this earth, and what a difference His precious Blood has meant to mankind.
Not exactly the answers young Eric is looking for I guess, but what has been with me all day...
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