Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father? - Page 38

Abiding Now · #**371** 11-02-2014, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Look folks, I have been reading Bernards book and I think we are all talking about the same thing...

I believe that The Spirit of Jesus is the Father of the O.T.

The Spirit of the Father was indwelling Jesus

I agree with Bernard that the Man, Jesus did not preexist before the virgin birth, but only in the mind/will of God as a plan as he states on page 182...... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...78677474,d.cGU

Bernard says that Jesus had a human spirit also...I agree. etc. etc.

My only real beef is...Was Jesus "born" God, or did he "ascend" to be God?

From CONCEPTION He was God.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Sean · #**372** 11-02-2014, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Yes...I don't need to quote the dictionary again

But I will repeat what I said before. This is a prophecy. It's a prophecy of a future event.

And you are working with one translation without the benefit of the Hebrew

Here is another translation. The JPS is a Jewish translation

Isa 9:6 (9:5) For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele- joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;

Your "Shall" may not be a "Shall" and even if it was "Shall" does not mean "some 30 years later"

Some others

(BBE) For to us a child has come, to us a son is given; and the government has been placed in his hands; and he has been named Wise Guide, Strong God, Father for ever, Prince of Peace.

In fact why can't this be understood as

For unto us a child is to be born, unto us a son is to be given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.?

Because we know this is a prophecy

More

(LITV) For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Look at you, trying to find a PERVERTED translation from the minority text.

That is not at all what the KJV says.

Thats is how false religions are founded. On false Bibles.

This is the true version here...For unto us a child ispresent to be born, unto us a son ispresent to be given: and the government shallfuture be upon his shoulder: and his name shallfuturebe called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace

You will NEVER convince me that those fake, minority text bibles are credible. They are changed by the authors to fit the authors' beliefs. They are just glorified, modern day commentaries.

mfblume · #**373** 11-02-2014, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike, God was clearly tempted in these passages.....James says "CANNOT be tempted with evil"...or God cannot be tempted into being(falling into) evil.

How else do we explain this "contradiction" in the Bible?

God was not being tempted. Jesus was tempted as a man. And the temptation satan gave to him was TO TEMPT GOD by leaping off the temple and seeing if GOD WOULD RESCUE THE SON OF GOD.

Sean · #**374** 11-02-2014, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

From CONCEPTION He was God.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Agreed, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost.

Could it be then that he would begin his life filled with the Holy Ghost?

Luke 4;4 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness

Notice that we have a human being(Jesus), full of the Holy Ghost.

The alternative is saying Jesus is a God/man right?

If the baby/man was God, then we have a dead God for 3 days, or a God with a God, as Jesus stated the Father as his God several times.

It is said that Jesus is fully man and fully God. Jesus had 2 spirits residing in him.

His own human spirit and the Spirit of the Father(Holy Ghost) simultaneously.

Now watch them separate here....

Matt 27:46..46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (The father in him was gone here)

47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.

48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.

49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.(his human spirit left his body, causing death instantly)

Sean · #**375** 11-02-2014, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

God was not being tempted. Jesus was tempted as a man. And the temptation satan gave to him was TO TEMPT GOD by leaping off the temple and seeing if GOD WOULD RESCUE THE SON OF GOD.

If God was NOT being tempted Mike, then why did Jesus have to command Satan..."thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God".?

It does not imply that God gave in to Satans' temptation, but it does imply that Satan was trying to tempt God.

mfblume · #**376** 11-02-2014, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

If God was NOT being tempted Mike, then why did Jesus have to command Satan..."thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God".?

It does not imply that God gave in to Satans' temptation, but it does imply that Satan was trying to tempt God.

God cannot be tempted. Stop trying to twist that statement. Do not add to it. He cannot be tempted. Period. THE MAN was being tempted alone to IN TURN TEMPT GOD. Do you disagree that leaping off a temple to see if God will rescue you is YOU tempting God? Jesus told satan, "You will not get me to tempt God, because the Word says 'Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.'" Sean, he was quoting scripture! He was not telling satan that satan should not be tempting HIM!

Deuteronomy 6:16 KJV Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.

Exodus 17:2 KJV Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD?

Jesus was saying he will not tempt God the Father by yielding to satan's challenge. Jesus quoted the scripture that HE HIMSELF said he would obey! Deut 6:16.

Jesus was saying Israel tempted God when they TESTED TO SEE IF HE WAS WITH THEM OR NOT. Satan was trying to get Jesus to do the same thing by leaping off the temple. He said IF HE WAS SON OF GOD then TEST IT OUT TO ENSURE IT'S TRUE by leaping off the temple. He was tempting Jesus to tempt God. Again, do you not think it is JESUS TEMPTING GOD IF HE leaped off the temple to see if God would rescue Him?

Jesus was saying HE AS A MAN WILL NOT TEMPT GOD by leaping off the temple, because the word says to Him as well as us all, "DO NOT TEMPT THE LORD THY GOD." You have to study what Israel did at Massah and Meribah to catch this.

mfblume · #**377** 11-02-2014, 08:27 AM

Jesus was in the same wilderness scenario that Israel was in when Moses gave ALL THREE COMMANDS TO THEM that Jesus used against the devil. Jesus was saying he will not fail in THOSE THREE POINTS where Israel distinctly failed. The words Jesus quoted were words HE WOULD OBEY AS A HUMAN BEING, which is what we must all likewise obey. You ruin that whole point by saying Jesus meant satan should not tempt GOD. lol

Sean · #**378** 11-02-2014, 08:34 AM

Mike, I will ask you this...

Then why did God respond to their tempting, by tempting him to wipe them out and start over with Moses. Moses had to talk the Lord out of it.(Calm Him down)...sounds like a temptation to respond violently against his people right? They got Him mad right?
If a man follows you though the mall and says things to upset you in front of your family, are you tempted to hit him in your anger, or tested to hit him in your anger?

"Tempt" is more forceful of a word than "test"...it was put in the Bible for a reason. Dont try to change it bro. The 2 words are not interchangeable.

Do you enjoy rewording or paraphrasing the word "tempt" to make it into the word "test"? That is definitely not Biblical, but it is how mens' ideas get mixed into the unadulterated word of God to "reinvent" the actual biblical meanings....naughty naughty.

Sean · #**379** 11-02-2014, 08:36 AM

Gotta go guys

Michael The Disciple · #**380** 11-02-2014, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abiding Now

From CONCEPTION He was God.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

From conception he was man would seem more accurate.

1 Timothy 3:16

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.