Your tithes were already paid. - Page 38

Sean · #**371** 10-27-2015, 06:37 PM

Sarah, are you a scribe/Pharisee(under the Law)?

Originalist · #**372** 10-27-2015, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudy

Our brother is all over the place concerning rightly dividing the word of God.

Was the new birth Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about in John 3 available at that moment? No. It wasn't. My point remains even if it goes over your head.

Pliny · #**373** 10-27-2015, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ah, so I guess Investopedia is right and the Holy Bible is wrong? I gave you the scripture showing the relationship between money and tithe. I see you ignored that.

As for the questions you asked, I didn't see any questions?

Facts are stubborn things. You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.

It is a Historical archaeological FACT that currency as we know it did not exist until about 600 years before Christ.

The "scripture" you gave was a translation to help people who cannot read Hebrew.

Pliny · #**374** 10-27-2015, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Since you have no biblical answer to any of these questions, you cannot make a doctrine out of it for everybody.

And Abraham returned the property because he did not view the king's permission as a valid enough reason to keep it. He knew in the sight of God that was not his property. Thus he did indeed tithe on other people's property. There would have been nothing to tithe otherwise. Why did he not go to his own flocks and tithe from that? Your theory has more holes than swiss cheese.

Since you have no Biblical answer to my questions you have no right to make a doctrine out of it for anybody.

J.A. Perez · #**375** 10-27-2015, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

What you are failing to grasp is that the Christ's words concerning the new birth were prophetic in nature and would be fulfilled and implemented at Pentecost.

Wow, your sounding more and more like preterist. Jesus wasn't prophesying, he was giving a Pharisee the everlasting Gospel in a nutshell.
In fact verse 8 was a factual statement using the types and shadows of the wind as a type of the Spirit, and the ( sound )=Greek -phonay- language. This was not prophesy it was Jesus laying out the exact thing that we still preach. You must be born again of the water and the Spirit and when you receive the Spirit you will speak heavens language.

John 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

The ushering in of the new birth was the ushering in the new covenant and the abolition of the Law with it's ordinances,

Not true, Calvary ushered the New Testament in.
The ceremonial law was done away, at Calvary. That was the testament that was then present, being between God and the Jew. The new birth was only possible after the old had been done away at Calvary.

Hebrews 9:16,17
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

including the tithe Jesus rebuked the pharisees over.

Read it again, Jesus didn't rebuke the Pharisee for tithing, they were tithing rightly, but they were leaving out essentials of the law, the law, the law, the law, that we still need to do. If Jesus was doing away with tithing the he was also doing away with the other parts of the law he spoke of... Namely - judgment and the love of God. No way!

Luke 11:42
Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Both portions of Scripture were spoken to Pharisee. Pharisee that were under the law. A Pharisee that was under the old covenant. Shall we do away with being born again? Because Jesus spoke to Pharisee in both instances ?
The scripture speaks for it self.

Evang.Benincasa · #**376** 10-27-2015, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Wow, your sounding more and more like preterist.

Why are you saying this?

J.A. Perez · #**377** 10-27-2015, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Why are you saying this?

Just sayen that you guys see types, and prophesy differently than us futurists. I could of also said historist.

Just different.

Sorry don't mean to use you guys as the wipping posts of prophesy. Hahaha

J/K! J/K !!

Evang.Benincasa · #**378** 10-27-2015, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Just sayen that you guys see types, and prophesy differently than us futurists. I could of also said historist.

Just different.

Sorry don't mean to use you guys as the wipping posts of prophesy. Hahaha

J/K! J/K !!

You might have more Preterists (and Historicists) closer to you than you think?

Esaias · #**379** 10-28-2015, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pliny

Facts are stubborn things. You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts.

It is a Historical archaeological FACT that currency as we know it did not exist until about 600 years before Christ.

The "scripture" you gave was a translation to help people who cannot read Hebrew.

Really? You are really going there?

Okie dokie.

Please show me how the scripture I quoted does not have to do with money.

Please show how Strong's Greek Dictionary is in error.

I wait with baited breath.

Russ Kelly · #**380** 10-28-2015, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Bro. Kelly I do agree with you about tithing as not being a new testament doctrine. I do hope that people can see some significance to tithing though. I don't think we can just discount every one who did tithe because of technicalities. Abraham done it with spoils of war, Jacob was using it to manipulate, the nation of Israel done it under the law, etc...

From the repetitiveness of the practice their must be some significance. Again, we shouldn't make NT doctrine from these illustrations, but certainly we can glean from them. Similarly, I have taught and recommended early morning devotion from OT illustrations. I can't mandate people's prayer and study habits, but I can show them men that such habits worked for them.

Abraham, Jacob, and the nation of Israel all had in common the blessing of God. I am not saying it was only because they tithed, but it was because of a faith based commitments to God. I have been blessed by tithing. Not because of a legalities, but because God rewards our acts of faith.

I think there is a middle ground to this subject that people miss. We should not throw out a practice that has been so effective throughout scripture until the current. I do think many should make revision concerning how they teach giving. Tithing is a good thing, but it is unprofitable if people do it because of compulsory.

Many will use the argument against tithing as ammunition to not support the ministry of their local church. I think we must be clear that whatever our stand is on tithing, giving and many times sacrificially giving is necessary. I don't feel that you disagree with this, but sometimes it needs to be pointed out.

I detest those who use my arguments to stop supporting gospel workers. I cannot stress sacrificial giving more. It is the key. We can all give sacrificially and give up some of our wants. Just don't call it tithing. Tithes were compulsory under the Law. We are dead to the Law that we might live to and for Christ with such a burden for the lost that we often give far and above what the Law required from some.