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12-21-2007, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
I posted the similar beliefs held by the Latter Day Saints ... that has to count for something .... *wink*
Give me a break ... you'd rather defend this heretical extreme viewpoint expressed by some in this thread, that I know you don't believe, than call a spade a spade.
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What makes you think I don't believe it?
Remission of sins takes place at water baptism. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16 If a minister will not baptise someone who they believe has not repented then that person sins are not remitted. Dan, I'm being very consistent in my beliefs as is Bro Elpey.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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12-21-2007, 07:22 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
What makes you think I don't believe it?
Remission of sins takes place at water baptism. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16 If a minister will not baptise someone who they believe has not repented then that person sins are not remitted. Dan, I'm being very consistent in my beliefs as is Bro Elpey. |
Perhaps I mispoke .... Then your view is as papal and Mormon as the good Elder's.
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12-21-2007, 07:22 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
What makes you think I don't believe it?
Remission of sins takes place at water baptism. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16 If a minister will not baptise someone who they believe has not repented then that person sins are not remitted. Dan, I'm being very consistent in my beliefs as is Bro Elpey. |
I wonder when Dan is going to answer the question and tell us how this verse is to be interpreted....could it be they remit sins by the preaching the word? If so they still have some "power"
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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12-21-2007, 07:24 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
Perhaps I mispoke .... Then your view is a papal and Mormon as the good Elder's.
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23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
When is sin remitted?
Who is remitting the sin?
Why did Jesus give them this authority?
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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12-21-2007, 07:24 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelathais
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The word "remission" is "aphesis" in the Greek. It simply means "forgiveness". In Acts 2:38 the baptism clause is in the passive voice thus indicating that it isn't the focus in relation to the remission of sins but rather repentance is. Acts 10 clearly indicates that yes, baptism is a command of Scripture. Acts 13:38-39 doesn't mention baptism but rather faith in Christ.
If sins are not remitted (forgiven) until baptism....how do individuals both in Scripture and in modern Pentecost receive the Holy Ghost prior to baptism? Can one receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, God's Holy Spirit, without first being forgiven?
I'm not saying that Jesus name baptism isn't a command of Scripture to be preached and obeyed. What I'm saying is that the idea that sins are not remitted until baptism is essentially baptismal regeneration and renders baptism the basis of sins forgiveness and not the blood of Christ. The idea threatens the very atonement of the cross for a Pentecostal Sacramentalism. Please understand. I'm not saying that it's ok for one not to be baptized, because it's an explicit command of Scripture. What I'm questioning is what you claim happens at baptism.
I'll re-ask my questions so you can review and answer:
If sins are not remitted (forgiven) until baptism....how do individuals both in Scripture and in modern Pentecost receive the Holy Ghost prior to baptism? Can one receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost, God's Holy Spirit, without first being forgiven?
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12-21-2007, 07:25 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
What makes you think I don't believe it?
Remission of sins takes place at water baptism. Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16 If a minister will not baptise someone who they believe has not repented then that person sins are not remitted. Dan, I'm being very consistent in my beliefs as is Bro Elpey. |
Does this mean that the Lord would allow a bitter minister to stand in the way of a repentant sinner's salvation?
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12-21-2007, 07:25 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
I wonder when Dan is going to answer the question and tell us how this verse is to be interpreted....could it be they remit sins by the preaching the word? If so they still have some "power"
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"Dan is going to look through some commentaries and post a very long post", saith me! 
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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12-21-2007, 07:28 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
When is sin remitted?
Who is remitting the sin?
Why did Jesus give them this authority?
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BUWWWWWAHHHHHAAAA!!!!
ROFL ... You forget .... in the 1 step view ... forgiveness and remission are one and the same ...
In your view remission is distinct ... it means to wash away ... erase ... blot out ... etc., etc.
The Greek uses one word for both forgiveness and remission ... APHESIS.
That's because the writers made no distinction ..... either ...
Yet today we have a backwards theology relying on the KJV distinctions to formulate FALSE doctrine.
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12-21-2007, 07:29 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
Does this mean that the Lord would allow a bitter minister to stand in the way of a repentant sinner's salvation?
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What? A hypothetical question?
I don't know maybe the Lord will strike the bitter minister dead and allow a Spirit filled minister to take his place and baptize the repentent sinner in Jesus name.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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12-21-2007, 07:29 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
"Dan is going to look through some commentaries and post a very long post", saith me! |
See the post before this one for my long winded and arduous research!!!!
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