Is Water Baptism Necessary For Salvation?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Ferd

So here is the defninitive answer.

some of us believe that you are not saved without baptism in the name of Jesus. period.

some of us believe that Baptism is a profession of faith in Christ, and is a public statment of the salvation recieved at repentance.

others believe that a person who comes to christ, recieves the HG but dies before being baptized would be saved but if they refused baptism they would not be saved.


in all the above cases some of us believe that Jesus name baptism is the ONLY effectual form of baptism, some of us believe Jesus name baptism is "more biblical" but do not believe that it is exclusive.

Others believe that baptism in either Jesus name or the titles are on equal footing.


Did I leave anything out?

Yes you did. You left out someone who believes that a person who INTENDS TO BE BAPTIZED, but dies before having a chance to do so, is considered baptized since God counts those things that are not as though they were in such cases.

Something else to ponder... what if God also knows if someone WOULD be obedient to baptism IF they were preached it by someone with WISDOM, and not hammered, but never were?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yes you did. You left out someone who believes that a person who INTENDS TO BE BAPTIZED, but dies before having a chance to do so, is considered baptized since God counts those things that are not as though they were in such cases.

Something else to ponder... what if God also knows if someone WOULD be obedient to baptism IF they were preached it by someone with WISDOM, and not hammered, but never were?

We could also draw this a little farther out and say that what if God also knows if someone WOULD be obedient to REPENTANCE IF they were preached it by someone with WISDOM, and not hammered, but never were?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Rico

You are assuming there is always a readily available means to get someone baptized. I know what you are saying, but sometimes circumstances just get in the way. Say, for example, it's the middle of January. Heading on down to the River is out of the question because it's 20 below zero. It's 11:30 on Sunday night and y'all had a blowout service. A sinner makes his way to the altar during the altar call. He wants to get baptized, but there's no water in the baptistry because the line sprung a leak and they haven't been fixed yet. The pastor says to wait until he can either get the baptisty fixed or find somewhere to perform the baptism. Brother New Convert leaves and dies from an unexpected heart attack or in a car wreck that night. Does he get into Heaven? My feeling is he would, but that's one of them tricky judgement calls only God should make.

I disagree with you on this. They used to break through the ice in the creek in the North Carolina Mountains to have a baptismal. I personally have crawled into a running creek that had to be below zero to baptize someone that had seen the light on Jesus Name Baptism. If it is taught as salvational, there will be a push to baptize someone as soon as possible. If someone is putting it off because of inconvenience, then they probably really don't believe it is necessary for salvation, or they do not really have a heart for souls.

I have also baptized someone in a tub in their bathroom. It wasn't easy, but she went all the way under in Jesus name!

Where there is a will, there is a way.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I disagree with you on this. They used to break through the ice in the creek in the North Carolina Mountains to have a baptismal. I personally have crawled into a running creek that had to be below zero to baptize someone that had seen the light on Jesus Name Baptism. If it is taught as salvational, there will be a push to baptize someone as soon as possible. If someone is putting it off because of inconvenience, then they probably really don't believe it is necessary for salvation, or they do not really have a heart for souls.

I have also baptized someone in a tub in their bathroom. It wasn't easy, but she went all the way under in Jesus name!

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Amen!

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I disagree with you on this. They used to break through the ice in the creek in the North Carolina Mountains to have a baptismal. I personally have crawled into a running creek that had to be below zero to baptize someone that had seen the light on Jesus Name Baptism. If it is taught as salvational, there will be a push to baptize someone as soon as possible. If someone is putting it off because of inconvenience, then they probably really don't believe it is necessary for salvation, or they do not really have a heart for souls.

I have also baptized someone in a tub in their bathroom. It wasn't easy, but she went all the way under in Jesus name!

Where there is a will, there is a way.

That's great, St. Matt, but good luck getting anyone to be willing to go into the Ohio River or the Wabash River in warm weather, let alone when it's the middle of winter. Based on the logic in your post, it would be the pastor who didn't think it was necessary, because that is who told the person in my story to wait.

Also, I happen to know of situations where someone can't get baptized until proper channels are dealt with, like people in prison. You can't just walk in and announce you are going to baptize someone. They, along with the volunteer who is going to baptize them, have to get permission from the prison officials.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

We could also draw this a little farther out and say that what if God also knows if someone WOULD be obedient to REPENTANCE IF they were preached it by someone with WISDOM, and not hammered, but never were?

Just surmising, but there is a difference between proving desire to follow God and not.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Rico

That's great, St. Matt, but good luck getting anyone to be willing to go into the Ohio River or the Wabash River in warm weather, let alone when it's the middle of winter. Based on the logic in your post, it would be the pastor who didn't think it was necessary, because that is who told the person in my story to wait.

Also, I happen to know of situations where someone can't get baptized until proper channels are dealt with, like people in prison. You can't just walk in and announce you are going to baptize someone. They, along with the volunteer who is going to baptize them, have to get permission from the prison officials.

Rico, I have a good friend that was over the prison ministry in an area of MO. He pre-set up the ability to baptize ANY prisoner that wanted to be baptized. They did not have to wait. IF it is important enough, someone will giter done.


I will also say this. If God is big enough to forgive their sins, I believe he is big enough to keep them until they CAN get baptized.

I would really like to know if anyone here has ever known someone that wanted to get baptized, and was not able to, and died before the opportunity came?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Rico

That's great, St. Matt, but good luck getting anyone to be willing to go into the Ohio River or the Wabash River in warm weather, let alone when it's the middle of winter. Based on the logic in your post, it would be the pastor who didn't think it was necessary, because that is who told the person in my story to wait.

I missed commenting on this first part of your post.


IF someone rejects baptism, wether warm weather or cold, are they really interested in being obedient to the Gospel?

And if a Pastor would put off baptizing someone, then shame on him! He obviously does not think much of the persons soul. Would you continue to go to a doctor for a life saving treatment if he decided that it was too cold to come in and see you?

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Rico, I have a good friend that was over the prison ministry in an area of MO. He pre-set up the ability to baptize ANY prisoner that wanted to be baptized. They did not have to wait. IF it is important enough, someone will giter done.


I will also say this. If God is big enough to forgive their sins, I believe he is big enough to keep them until they CAN get baptized.

I would really like to know if anyone here has ever known someone that wanted to get baptized, and was not able to, and died before the opportunity came?

Well, maybe you can send him over to Indiana. Them people were tough to deal with! Actually, it was more the chaplain who was tough to deal with. He wasn't very pro-tongue talkin. Even though the prisoner's are supposed to have the right to excercise their religion, the prison chaplain still can find ways to make things difficult for groups he doesn't agree with. Last I heard, he got transferred out, so maybe they were finally able to get things worked out. Federal prisons are a totally different ballgame. It's much easier to get things done with them.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I missed commenting on this first part of your post.


IF someone rejects baptism, wether warm weather or cold, are they really interested in being obedient to the Gospel?

And if a Pastor would put off baptizing someone, then shame on him! He obviously does not think much of the persons soul. Would you continue to go to a doctor for a life saving treatment if he decided that it was too cold to come in and see you?

I don't believe that for a second, St Matt. Sometimes there are legitimate reasons for people not being able to be baptized immediately. What if it was an 80 year old woman? Can you honestly tell me you think she should risk getting into a river with fast moving currents, in the middle of winter, rather than wait a few days for the pastor to find a more suitable way for her to be baptized?