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  #31  
Old 08-15-2008, 09:46 PM
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AbundantGrace AbundantGrace is offline
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
The problem with this is "eternally existing" persons. If there are 3 co equal eternally existing PERSONALITIES in the Godhead its time for Oneness Churches to close up shop, repent and go away.
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  #32  
Old 08-15-2008, 11:51 PM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 View Post
My question about #2 is this, is there anything in the wording that a Oneness person would take issue with?
Yes. In the description of God:

God is the Creator and the Ruler of the Universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The three are equal and are one God.


My thoughts:
The three are equal may not be Biblical. The three are one God is Biblical.

The three are equal implies a level of "separateness" and co-equality that I don't believe is Biblical.


In an equilateral triangle, all 3 angles equal 60 degrees. <1 = 60, <2 = 60, <3 = 60. The sum of the angles of every triangle will always be 180 degrees. This is exactly what I pictured after I read that statement.

But does <1 = 180 degrees? No. The triangle would be incomplete without all 3 angles.

Not so when it comes to our God.

In God's math, <1 = 180, <2 = 180, <3 = 180.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I'm not that smart, math is my weakness. However, this was the quickest and clearest way to express my thoughts.
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  #33  
Old 08-16-2008, 04:00 AM
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

As far as the Spirit is concerned is this really a personality or does Spirit refer to the very essence of God's being?

Eternally existing personalities? That is not Onenenss that I know of
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #34  
Old 08-16-2008, 06:58 AM
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TRFrance TRFrance is offline
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron1710 View Post
My question about #2 is this, is there anything in the wording that a Oneness person would take issue with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
As far as the Spirit is concerned is this really a personality or does Spirit refer to the very essence of God's being?

Eternally existing personalities? That is not Onenenss that I know of
Thank you!

The Spirit is God's nature and essence.
The Spirit is not one of three eternal "personalites" of God.

That kind of thinking is closer to Trinitarianism than Oneness... but even most Trinitarian scholars would reject that description and characterization of God.
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  #35  
Old 08-16-2008, 07:51 AM
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

Quote:
Yes. In the description of God:

My thoughts:
The three are equal may not be Biblical. The three are one God is Biblical.

The three are equal implies a level of "separateness" and co-equality that I don't believe is Biblical.

In an equilateral triangle, all 3 angles equal 60 degrees. <1 = 60, <2 = 60, <3 = 60. The sum of the angles of every triangle will always be 180 degrees. This is exactly what I pictured after I read that statement.

But does <1 = 180 degrees? No. The triangle would be incomplete without all 3 angles.

Not so when it comes to our God.

In God's math, <1 = 180, <2 = 180, <3 = 180.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say? I'm not that smart, math is my weakness. However, this was the quickest and clearest way to express my thoughts.
Hi, I don't post on this forum much, so you guys don't know me. Since you don't know me, I want to say up front that what I'm about to say is not a defense of Trinitarianism.

With that said, if my understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity is correct, they would fully agree with this statement:

Quote:
In God's math, <1 = 180, <2 = 180, <3 = 180.
They would say that the triangle is God, not the angles. The definition of the Trinity is that it is one Being (God) who exists in three Persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). So the Being (God) is equally existent in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So they don't claim that there are "three almightys" as they are so often accused of. They believe in one God just as much as the Oneness folks do. They don't claim to understand how that can be so, but they find it do be a biblical truth.

Many Oneness folks make the mistake of confusing Trinitarianism (one Being in three Persons) with tritheism (three gods). Tritheism is non-Scriptural and it is a logical impossibility. It's impossible to have three almightys. It just can't happen. The definition of the word precludes it.

C.S. Lewis gave an interesting illustration of how the Trinity might work in his book Mere Christianity. He was careful to stress that he was just hypothesizing. He suggested that we humans might be "incomplete" personalities while God is a "full" personality. He suggested that God might be seen from our perspective as a cube. On different sides of the cube you see Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (I am reciting what he said from memory, so I might not have it exactly right...but that's basically what he said if I remember it correctly).

Anyway, I want to stress again that I am not defending Trinitarianism. At least not in the sense of trying to persuade anyone that the doctrine is correct. I just wanted to point out that the idea that Jesus is 1/3 God and the Father is 1/3 God and the Holy Spirit is 1/3 God is not a view that Trinitarians would agree with.

Just my 2 copper...now I'll go back to lurking =P
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  #36  
Old 08-16-2008, 07:56 AM
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TRFrance TRFrance is offline
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

I think we need to be careful about using mathematical analogies to describle the Godhead.

I think most of the time they just dont. quite. work.
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  #37  
Old 08-16-2008, 08:54 AM
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Sherri Sherri is offline
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

I still don't like the term "personalities". How can they have different personalities? Wouldn't that imply that they all have different thought patterns, reactions, etc.?
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  #38  
Old 08-16-2008, 11:06 AM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

Separate and distinct persons of God. Thats what Trins would say. To me that confession cannnot be anything but a violation of the Bible doctrine that God is one.
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  #39  
Old 08-16-2008, 12:06 PM
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ChTatum ChTatum is offline
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Re: Camouflage Oneness on your website

I don't mind camouflage.

It's those 90 square inches of bright orange I don't like.
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