Summoning spirits? Who did the Witch of Endor see?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I re-read it too. It's clear to me that she summoned Samuel from the afterlife and he even prophesied from the the spirit world. There is much about the spirit world that we don't understand. It is possible to summon spirits. When we summon spirits we essentially open a doorway into the spiritual plane whereby those who are beyond may gain access to and influence this world. That's why it's strictly forbidden in the Law.

When calling spirits it was not that the dead would reach out in their immortal soul and talk back. God forbad it because of the FAMILIAR SPIRITS. Thats what the scripture says the Witch of Endor had. Demons impersonating the dead.

Demons are waiting to be invited into peoples lives and they not the dead will indeed bring their influence into the world.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

So if we accept that it is Samuel ...

Samuel did tell Saul tha he and his sons would join him where?

The grave? Hades? Hell?

1 Samuel 28

19 Moreover, the LORD will give Israel also with you into the hand of the Philistines, and tomorrow you(U) and your sons shall be with me. The LORD will give the army of Israel also into the hand of the Philistines."

Pretty obvious he meant the grave. Was God going to punish Saul for his sins by giving him a seat in Paradise beside Samuel? No Samuel spoke of Saul dying and coming to Sheol, the grave.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Pretty obvious he meant the grave. Was God going to punish Saul for his sins by giving him a seat in Paradise beside Samuel? No Samuel spoke of Saul dying and coming to Sheol, the grave.

Sheol in your intepretation is just the grave ... where there is no "knowledge" ... am I reading you right?

What is your concept of the grave?

What is your view of the afterlife, Mike?

How would you interpret Jesus parable describing the afterlife in his parable of Lazarus and the rich man? (Luke 16)

Specifically the "bosom of Abraham" ... a phrase the people during Jesus time was seen as paradise in Sheol.

Would you disagree with this statement:

Here, in the words of Jesus' himself we have corroboration for the Jewish concept of sheol. And not only that, but Jesus' words also align perfectly with 1 Samuel 28, where the prophet Samuel is depicted as arising out of the earth.

If so, why?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Sheol in your intepretation is just the grave ... where there is no "knowledge" ... am I reading you right?

What is your concept of the grave?

What is your view of the afterlife, Mike?

How would you interpret Jesus parable describing the afterlife in his parable of Lazarus and the rich man? (Luke 16)

Specifically the "bosom of Abraham" ... a phrase the people during Jesus time was seen as paradise in Sheol.

Would you disagree with thise statement:


If so, why?

My view is that ONLY JESUS is currently immortal.

14: That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16: Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen. 1 Tim. 6:14-16

Since Paul said Jesus ONLY is immortal to me that rules out anyone else.

The gospel is the "good news". The good news is that those who have died can live again.

If they are already alive whats so good about the good news?

Jesus said HE would give eternal life. He brought life and immortality to light through the Gospel.

10: But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:


Although Samuel could in Gods purposes be brought up from the Earth (not Paradise) that cannot imply he arose into immortality since Paul taught hundreds of years later that Jesus ONLY had it.

Samuel will have eternal life/immortality at the resurrection of the dead like the rest of us.

You may check out more in depth my belief on the afterlife at my site..

http://www.freeforum101.com/inthelig...rum=inthelight

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by revrandy

I don't see what the big deal is...

The Bible says the woman cried out with a loud voice...Sounds like she was surprised that it happened.... Saul prayed but God would not answer....he needed the Preacher...
If she was indeed a witch with power why did she not recognize Saul immediately?

I think that she may have cried aloud because she was terrified of the prophet. They were executing witches under Saul’s regime. If you recall when Saul approached her about summoning Samuel she wondered if Saul was laying a snare for her life and Saul had to reassure her that she wouldn’t be harmed. Imagine, you’re a witch and the very King who’s ordered that witches be executed is standing before you asking you to perform witchcraft. Not only that, but when you summon the spirit requested, you find yourself staring into the face of the holy prophet’s spirit. I think she was terrified with a holy terror, not surprised that it actually worked. Anyone with any serious spiritual or occult experience knows that witchcraft works if done properly.

God is limitless in his power and ability I think he allowed Samuel to speak to Saul regardless of who "summoned" him...

I think that’s a stretch. Besides, more than Samuel was released. Here’s the text…

I Samuel 28:13
And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

The term “gods” is actually better translated “'elohiym” meaning “spirits” or “gods”. It can also be translated in the singular if viewed in the plural intensive, but scholars are divided on which angle to take.

What are the implications???

Well… that something lives on after death, else nothing of Samuel would be able to be contacted. I firmly believe this was a real conjuring by an adept and powerful witch. The most real witches typically aren’t those who learn the craft from a book from a book store, real witches are born witches. It’s in the bloodline and is a spiritual ability that becomes known in early adolescence. It’s often said that a child has a “gift” or an “anointing”. They use a lot of “Christian” terms but its witchcraft. But now we’re going down a path less traveled by religion and getting more into the realm of spiritualism and spiritual experiences. So I’ll stop here.