He Was More than Just a Man

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

By Gods grace Im not aware of any sin in my life. But one must not think thats something big. No thats just whats supposed to be normal to a disciple of Yeshua.

The problem is mens traditions have made it seem as if SIN were the victor over the Saint. As if someone who was overcoming it were some super spiritual person. Rather the Apostolic writings make as if its NORMAL for the Saint to walk in the Spirit.

5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Gal. 5:22-24

Do You EVER sin?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Nina

Do You EVER sin?

Well sad to say I have sinned since being a Christian. That does not mean I will again by Gods grace. John said "if" we sin we have an advocate even Jesus. So thats also true.

But without doubt God wants his people to follow his will always. Instead of having the mindset that we know we will sin it would be better to have the mindset Paul instructed:

11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom. 6:11

Count yourself dead to sin.

Sinless perection does not mean its impossible to sin. It is the concept that sin can consistently be overcome one day at a time.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well sad to say I have sinned since being a Christian. That does not mean I will again by Gods grace. John said "if" we sin we have an advocate even Jesus. So thats also true.

But without doubt God wants his people to follow his will always.

Thanks for Your honesty here.
Were You still in a state of Salvation when You sinned?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Nina

Thanks for Your honesty here.
Were You still in a state of Salvation when You sinned?

I believe God grants space for repentance as we see in the case of Jezebel:

20: Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21: And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Rev. 2:20-21

If one continues in sin they should expect chastisment from the Lord. If they still continue in it they should fear that he will cut them off.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

As to the doctrine of sinless perfection every single New Testament Church should be teaching it.

Isn't this what 'every single New Testament Church' DOES teach?

When You describe the way this works in Your life it sounds like what I've been taught.

Are You saying 'we MUST' be sinless...and yet You still sin.

And others say, we (theoretically) CAN be sinless...and yet still sin.

???

Nina

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Jesus never said "I am God"? Yes that is true, but he did allude to it. Probably why is explained in Phil 2 where Paul argues he existed in the form of God...but humbled Himself.

It seems to me her argument is not really based on scriptures though but on her belief that she is or has to be perfectly sinless because Jesus was. And if Jesus was God, but not a man, then she can't be perfectly sinless...sounds like a circular argument.

Also, what if she does sin? What if she does commit a sin...just one...in say a 10 year period? Using her argument then that would mean her belief was wrong to begin with...using her argument. For her entire argument is built on the assumption that she can be and will be sinlessly perfect by believing Jesus was just a man, because he was just a man.

However, the other fallacy is that in saying Jesus is God she seems to think that means we deny he was a man. That is completely untrue.

7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Jesus is explicit with satan about who is God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Nina

Isn't this what 'every single New Testament Church' DOES teach?

When You describe the way this works in Your life it sounds like what I've been taught.

Are You saying 'we MUST' be sinless...and yet You still sin.

And others say, we (theoretically) CAN be sinless...and yet still sin.

???

Nina

No its not the same. Saying I HAVE sinned since becoming a Christian is not the same as saying I am sinning now.

If its the same why do almost all the Preachers OPPOSE the teaching of living without sin?

Its true that many Preachers do lay it out in the same progression I have. Thats good. But do you hear them preaching that Christ expects us to be perfect? How many have you heard?

It thats whats normally taught I dont understand why so many are offended when I or someone else may teach it?

Its actually a very basic message. Devote our lives to Christ. Follow his teachings. IF one would sin they should repent immediately. It should be taught that its RARE for a Christian to sin rather than its rare to overcome it.

[Nina]

Originally Posted by coadie

7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;

9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

Jesus is explicit with satan about who is God.

Thank You Coadie.

That's an appropriate Scripture.
I'm ashamed I haven't thought of this.

Nina

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

No its not the same. Saying I HAVE sinned since becoming a Christian is not the same as saying I am sinning now.

If its the same why do almost all the Preachers OPPOSE the teaching of living without sin?

Its true that many Preachers do lay it out in the same progression I have. Thats good. But do you hear them preaching that Christ expects us to be perfect? How many have you heard?

It thats whats normally taught I dont understand why so many are offended when I or someone else may teach it?

Its actually a very basic message. Devote our lives to Christ. Follow his teachings. IF one would sin they should repent immediately. It should be taught that its RARE for a Christian to sin rather than its rare to overcome it.

Even though most pastors don't teach this, does that absolve saints from striving to live without sinning?

Do You believe that, taught or not, saints desire this standard?

Don't we all know that we shouldn't sin?

Nina

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by Raven

Luke 1:35
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 10:36
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God ?

Matt 16:16-17
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Let's just simply let the Scripture speak for itself. Jesus is without a doubt, the Son of God! Some seem to shy away from this truth. Others want to say, "Oh I know it says that but we really know he is ........" [Whatever it is they are trying to prove]
Jesus told Peter, that the revelation is that, he indeed is the Son of God!
I'm afraid we "oneness" believers are close to being like the Mormons and JW's with extra-Biblical "revelations" we conjured up somewhere. This post won't go over well with some but that's alright the Truth will "dawn" eventually on them. To glibly pass over the truth that there is a Father and there is a Son in the Word, is to miss the glorious truth that God wants to perform in us as sons of God. This is what this Grand Plan of God is all about.
Raven

Raven,
Thanks for reminding those who read your post, that if we let the scripture speak, it will speak of Jesus being the Son of God.

I am confident that the firstfruits and the harvest are always of the same composition.

Your words:
To glibly pass over the truth that there is a Father and there is a Son in the Word, is to miss the glorious truth that God wants to perform in us as sons of God. This is what this Grand Plan of God is all about.
AMEN and AMEN.

I Tim 3:16 is about the mystery of GODLINESS; the creature being partaker in (recipient of) the divine nature.

Seen again in 2Pt 1:3-4
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that [pertain] unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.


Thanks for caring enough to share something that bears witness in your spirit and witnessed in the scripture; something that many only give lip service, recitation.