Is baptism essential unto salvation? - Page 4

clgustaveson · #31 06-01-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I am saying all new believers WILL be baptised. It is the first action (or at least one of the first actions) that is manifest in a new believer's life.

Do I question the faith of a believer who rejects baptism in an ongoing fashion? Yes - the same as I would question his faith if he continued living in obvious sin without repentance or remorse.

You would question a mans lifestyle even if he had no conviction about his actions?

In that sense do you think men should follow all traditions blindly without seeking a personal connection from God?

Don't take that as a personal attack, my question is not as rude as I think it looks... but should you ever judge a man's heart? Should we judge the intent of a man?

clgustaveson · #32 06-01-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

All Christians get baptised. Jesus commanded it, the Apostles commanded it, and those who came to repentance were baptized. When one is in Christ he desires to do His will. It's that simple really.

I see no exceptions.

This is my favorite post thus far... but it still doesn't imply salvation, just a slight insinuation that it my be a good thing to do...

clgustaveson · #33 06-01-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

One does not get baptized to get saved, but because you are saved.

However, it grieves me that there are folks who have been deceived into thinking that they don't have to be baptized.

I compare it to the guy who was in the highway and hedges who was beckoned to come to the wedding after the original invitees rejected their invitations.

The guy showed up-- but he didn't have the right clothes on. He was cast out of the wedding feast, if I'm not mistaken.

It's the attitude of the person getting baptized that I address when I say, "No, you don't get baptized to get saved", but indeed, as a person who is saved, we must obey the scriptures.

Water Baptism by full immersion, with the invocation of the Name of Jesus, is CLEARLY A BIBLICAL COMMAND FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BELIEVED UNTO SALVATION!

Your logic doesn't make sense (again don't take this as a personal attack) but you say it is something you do because you are saved, therefore you don't have to do it to be saved... but you change your stance and say people still have to do it... if you really believed what you said first you would have said "should" rather than "have"...

I just don't think ritualism is enough to make me feel compelled to get baptized... (while I have been) I just don't think ritualism or simply because everyone else did it is a good enough answer to imply it must be done...

staysharp · #34 06-01-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

Ok, before I make any statements, I am sure this has been hashed out many times on this forum. I don't simply want to reread other discussions, so please humor me...

Is baptism essential to be saved? This isn't a question of whether baptism in Jesus name is essential, so lets not turn this into a massive debate on Jesus name or FSHG... I just want to know if baptism is essential...

If baptism could save u, u wouldn't need the cross. U aren't saved at baptism. U were saved 2k years ago when Christ gave his life for humanity.

A new believer is asked to be baptized as a physical response to a spiritual work. A public testimony of Christ's death, burial & resurrection.

If one refuses baptism, I would question his dedication and faith to Christ.

clgustaveson · #35 06-01-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

If baptism could save u, u wouldn't need the cross. U aren't saved at baptism. U were saved 2k years ago when Christ gave his life for humanity.

A new believer is asked to be baptized as a physical response to a spiritual work. A public testimony of Christ's death, burial & resurrection.

If one refuses baptism, I would question his dedication and faith to Christ.

If baptism is the only act of faith a man shows is he then a good Christian?

Maybe our priorities are out of line if this is what people think expresses their faith... symbolism is not true faith. Any man can go under water and get wet, it's true acts of faith like love and charity that I find to be the real expression of my belief in God.

staysharp · #36 06-01-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

If baptism is the only act of faith a man shows is he then a good Christian?

Maybe our priorities are out of line if this is what people think expresses their faith... symbolism is not true faith. Any man can go under water and get wet, it's true acts of faith like love and charity that I find to be the real expression of my belief in God.

Sure, baptism is one of many, however highly overrated...lol

Hoovie · #37 06-01-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

You would question a mans lifestyle even if he had no conviction about his actions?

In that sense do you think men should follow all traditions blindly without seeking a personal connection from God?

Don't take that as a personal attack, my question is not as rude as I think it looks... but should you ever judge a man's heart? Should we judge the intent of a man?

I have thick skin.

I am saying the primary guide is not conscience but is what is already written in scripture. Convictions are nice, but are notoriously unreliable, IMHO.

So yes, things like adultery, homosexuality, murder, are to be "judged" without regard to convictions one may have to the contrary.

clyattvillan · #38 06-01-2009, 07:16 PM

Hello, I know I'm new here and nobody knows me. I found this forum on Google and this was the newest thread, so I figured I'd jump in.

Have y'all considered this text?

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

Couldn't we ask your question this way;

Was the ark essential to Noah's salvation?

Anyway, hope it was OK to chime in.

Aquila · #39 06-01-2009, 07:31 PM

I believe that water baptism is an essential part of God's plan. God judges the heart, so there may be exceptions. However, the exceptions appear to make the rule. If one can be baptized and isn't... I think they are playing with fire.

Jermyn Davidson · #40 06-01-2009, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

Your logic doesn't make sense (again don't take this as a personal attack) but you say it is something you do because you are saved, therefore you don't have to do it to be saved... but you change your stance and say people still have to do it... if you really believed what you said first you would have said "should" rather than "have"...

I just don't think ritualism is enough to make me feel compelled to get baptized... (while I have been) I just don't think ritualism or simply because everyone else did it is a good enough answer to imply it must be done...

Not offended.

But it's like this.

You don't "clean yourself up" and then come to Jesus.

He calls and you come to Him because He's calling you to repentance.

You don't continue in sin. You strive to live a life pleasing to the Lord.

These are things that a Christian MUST DO.

It doesn't save you, but you do it because as a Christian, this is what you are instructed to do.

Just as the new believer MUST DEPART FROM SIN, that same new believer MUST BE BAPTIZED.

If for no other reason than obedience.

This is why the scripture in Peter about baptism saving us is important:

IF YOU HAVE A GOOD CONSCIENCE TOWARDS YOUR NEW LORD AND SAVIOR, YOU WILL DEMONSTRATE THAT BY OBEYING THE SCRIPTURES.

But you don't get baptized to get saved. I'm speaking to the intent of one's heart and the way the Gospel should be presented-- a way that does not encourage "performance pentecost" or legalism or anything that would suggest that somehow our actions saved us.

How do you look at Communion?
In your mind, does taking Communion save you?