Arnold's Proof of Apostolic Doctrine in History

[kclee4jc]

Originally Posted by Sam

It is my opinion that people are placed/baptized into the Body of Christ at the moment they believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus and submit to Him. In my opinion, at that moment they are justified, saved, and born again and that salvation experience is separate from water baptism and Spirit Baptism. So, I have no problem believing that God has always had a people or a Church because I believe being in God's church is independent of a water baptism ritual and an experience in which speaking with tongues may be imparted, and in the way we dress.

Well if that is the case then Jesus will surely apologize for John 3:5. And the Apostle who said "if any man hath not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His" (Romans 8:9)

[Scott Hutchinson]

Truly if the church that was founded in the book of Acts,ever was extinct then the gates of hell prevailed against the church,which The Lord said this was never going to happen.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Truly if the church that was founded in the book of Acts,ever was extinct then the gates of hell prevailed against the church,which The Lord said this was never going to happen.

Amen, Bro. Scott!
God hides the truth from the wise and prudent and reveals it to "babes".
Those who become as little children. Open, honest and hungry for truth.
Not just to prove their point.
GOD never left/leaves Himself without witness. Just because someone does
not know who/where His witness is, doesn't mean there is not one/some. There
will always those who claim to be wise, but they become foolish. Someone once
thought the world was flat! Did that make it so!
Falla39

[Justin]

Any other information about this? A local church near me has began teaching from M. Arnold's work.

[Jay]

I have one or two of his works, and while they are very interesting, I did have some problems concerning a lack of end notes and sources at the end of his book. When comparing him or Bro. Bernard, I will take Bro. Bernard's books over Bro. Arnold's. I have also enjoyed some Bro. Chalfant's works.

[Sam]

[QUOTE=Adino;1005901]It is telling that Rev. Arnold never defines what he means by "UPPER ROOM CHURCH of Acts, Jerusalem, AD 33" .../QUOTE]

A couple of thoughts:
1. Wasn't the Holy Spirit outpouring in Acts chapter 2 upon people who were already believers?

2. How big was that "Upper Room" to hold 120 people, then a huge crowd, then 3000 people getting baptized?

[NorCal]

[QUOTE=Sam;1155476]

Originally Posted by Adino

It is telling that Rev. Arnold never defines what he means by "UPPER ROOM CHURCH of Acts, Jerusalem, AD 33" .../QUOTE]

A couple of thoughts:
1. Wasn't the Holy Spirit outpouring in Acts chapter 2 upon people who were already believers?

2. How big was that "Upper Room" to hold 120 people, then a huge crowd, then 3000 people getting baptized?

At question #1 - Believing makes you saved? Confess with your Mouth? Jesus said that you must be born of the water and of the spirit. Peter said you must Repent and be Baptized. The point is, we need the WHOLE Doctrine of Salvation.

At question #2 - Umm, the 3000 were in the street. Peter preached from a window? I believe historians say it was like a guest banquette hall, large enough to hold 120 people.

[Sam]

[QUOTE=NorCal;1155492]

Originally Posted by Sam

...At question #2 - Umm, the 3000 were in the street. Peter preached from a window? I believe historians say it was like a guest banquette hall, large enough to hold 120 people.

Or maybe the Holy Spirit outpouring happened in the Temple?
Luke 24:49-53 records that after Jesus promised them the Holy Spirit Baptism by which they would be endued or clothed with power they were continually in the Temple praising and blessing God. After Pentecost it is recorded that they gathered in Solomon's porch according to Acts 5:12.

The "upper room" of Acts 1:13 was probably a place where some of the first century disciples lived. They were probably gathering in the Temple and were there on Pentecost or Shavu'ot on Sunday May 28, AD 30 when the Holy Spirit was poured out on about 1/4 of the early church (120 of the more than 500 believers at that time according to 1 Corinthians 15:6). The 3000 who were water baptized that day most likely self-immersed in the many available mikveh places that were there in the temple for ritual purification. One Bible (One New Man Bible) has a note at Acts chapter 2 that 3000 people could be baptized or immersed (self-immersion was the custom at that time) in about 20 minutes.

[Sam]

The Church of the first century as it expanded from Jerusalem outward would not have resembled the UPC of today. It was made up originally of Jews by birth and Jews by conversion who had believed in Yeshua as Christ/Messiah and had undergone the ritual cleansing of baptism/mikveh. Most would still be practicing Jewish customs of the day such as keeping of the sabbaths and holy days; tithing to the temple if they were farmers or herdsmen --tradesmen or others who worked for a salary did not tithe; dressing in current clothing styles not some "holiness" or "cookie cutter" type garb from a time warp in the 1940's; and since salvation was by faith/trust in Yeshua/Jesus there was not as much emphasis on or as many people receiving a post-salvational enduement of power which we today term the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism). They would have believed in the one God of the Scriptures (our Old Testament) who was revealed to them as:
1. The invisible, omnipresent, omnipotent, transcendent God who was above all and the first cause/Creator and "Father" as to His being creator of all and as being in relationship to Israel as His "son"
2. The Memra/Logos/ha Kavod/Word/Angel of YHWH who was God in an immanent form which would be localized at times and which could be seen, felt, and touched by physical senses
3. The Spirit of the Lord or Holy Spirit which was God as He personally worked within them and upon them and through them.

This three-fold or triune being was understood by some to be like a three stranded rope made up of three separate cords but forming one rope.