A Crumbling UPC 'Fesses Up, AI is not working

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Ya lost me there... this is in reference to asking shack ups to separate or get married? or...

Hoovie, they have blood on their hands because of extra-biblical mandates that drove people away.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I don't think it's any secret at all that most foreign works have always been very lax on what we understand as westernized standards.

True; and the reasoning behind it is So Very Annoying. If these issues were truly viewed as salvational, they would be taught with equal fervor overseas.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

Pastors, forced to teach AI, driving away UPC new converts by the hundreds and thousands, now being told they could have delayed teaching it, or ignored it altogether.

hmm... I am not seeing that in the conversation. Any sizable church has always had members or constituents in various stages of adherence to church teachings and practice. Same is true in the Baptist Churches.

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I think it will sting him too.

However, I don't think a one size fits all. Many couples that live together have been together for many years. Some are divorcees that have children. To advocate that they dissolve their relationship immediately would be problematic and traumatic for all involved. I'd advocate just preaching the Word. God's GRACE is sufficient to keep them saved. Eventually the Word will do the work and convict them to marry. I don't believe God demands perfection. I do believe that grace is provided for the sinner. It's the imputation of Christ's righteousness to the sinful and undeserving. Their salvation isn't based on performance...but position... and if saved... their position is "in Christ".

Should they serve in some form of ministry? I wouldn't recomend it until they were married.

I was always taught that this would lead the women to wear dresses and not cut their hair too.

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

True; and the reasoning behind it is So Very Annoying. If these issues were truly viewed as salvational, they would be taught with equal fervor overseas.

Amen.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Ya lost me there... this is in reference to asking shack ups to separate or get married? or...

Don't you think that example was intended to throw off those who might jump to the obvious (and correct) conclusion? Do you really think any pastor worth his salt would hesitate to discourage a new convert from continuing in immorality?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Chateau d'If

Hoovie, they have blood on their hands because of extra-biblical mandates that drove people away.

Perhaps. I would like to believe one who is Born Again is not really that fragile. A genuine experience with Jesus transcends denominationalism period.

How many have left the baptist churches because of their harsh approach against alcohol? How many have left Lutheranism because they don't embrace charismatic gifts.

It's a stretch to say there is blood on someones hands etc. ...

[Chateau d'If]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Perhaps. I would like to believe one who is Born Again is not really that fragile. A genuine experience with Jesus transcends denominationalism period.

How many have left the baptist churches because of their harsh approach against alcohol? How many have left Lutheranism because they don't embrace charismatic gifts.

It's a stretch to say there is blood on someones hands etc. ...

I disagree.

Many people walk away believing they are lost because a preacher tells them they're lost. In effect, the preacher does the work of Satan, effectively separating a newborn from both Father God and the church.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

I was always taught that this would lead the women to wear dresses and not cut their hair too.

I think that with most couples, after becoming more rooted in a given church the desire for marriage will increase, especially in the heart of the lady involved. I've seen it dozens of times. A couple living together comes to church and after several months... she's talking more and more about marriage. At this point the couples I've seen will either move to marry or the pressures of being unmarried (their own choice) will wear on them. I've seen couples break up because she wants marriage and it becomes evident that he doesn't. I've also seen couples eventually leave together. At any rate... God was allowed to convict and deal with the couple.

Of course, I'm for common law marriage. I think that if a couple lives together for a given period, identifies themselves as married, and files taxes together... the law should legally recognize them. I don't think the government should have such an extensive reach of control over personal relationships.

[Jermyn Davidson]

The UPCI is not crumbling.

Good grief!