The Bible Is Secondary

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Bump

What letters? Identify them.

[houston]

Oh my... What is it with people asking for proof???

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I disagree.

They had the oral traditions from the Apostles and they shared letters written to each church.

Col 4:16 And after you have read this letter, have it read to the church of Laodicea. In turn, read the letter from Laodicea as well.

2Th 3:6 But we command you, brothers and sisters, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to keep away from any brother who lives an undisciplined life and not according to the tradition you received from us.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold on to the traditions that we taught you, whether by speech or by letter.


Paul went from church to church teaching them

Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we met to break bread, Paul began to speak to the people, and because he intended to leave the next day, he extended his message until midnight.
Act 20:8 (Now there were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting.)
Act 20:9 A young man named Eutychus, who was sitting in the window, was sinking into a deep sleep while Paul continued to speak for a long time. Fast asleep, he fell down from the third story and was picked up dead.

1Co 4:17 For this reason, I have sent Timothy to you, who is my dear and faithful son in the Lord. He will remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.


1Ti 4:13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Php 1:27 Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ so that — whether I come and see you or whether I remain absent — I should hear that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind, by contending side by side for the faith of the gospel,

2Co 13:2 I said before when I was present the second time and now, though absent, I say again to those who sinned previously and to all the rest, that if I come again, I will not spare anyone,

1Co 14:6 Now, brothers and sisters, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I help you unless I speak to you with a revelation or with knowledge or prophecy or teaching?

Rom 15:29 and I know that when I come to you I will come in the fullness of Christ's blessing.

1Th 4:1 Finally then, brothers and sisters, we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received instruction from us about how you must live and please God (as you are in fact living) that you do so more and more.

As did Timothy who was instructed by Paul
2Ti 4:2 Preach the message, be ready whether it is convenient or not, reprove, rebuke, exhort with complete patience and instruction.

1Ti 3:14 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you

1Ti 1:3 As I urged you when I was leaving for Macedonia, stay on in Ephesus to instruct certain people not to spread false teachings,
As did John
3Jn 1:10 Therefore, if I come, I will call attention to the deeds he is doing — the bringing of unjustified charges against us with evil words! And not being content with that, he not only refuses to welcome the brothers himself, but hinders the people who want to do so and throws them out of the church!

And probably even Titus
Tit 2:1 But as for you, communicate the behavior that goes with sound teaching.

Tit 2:15 So communicate these things with the sort of exhortation or rebuke that carries full authority. Don't let anyone look down on you.

Not to mention the many other named and unnamed fellow laborers.

They had Teachers

2Jn 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house and do not give him any greeting,

Who Taught the teachings of Christ
2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not remain in the teaching of Christ does not have God. The one who remains in this teaching has both the Father and the Son.

They taught the Truth
2Ti 2:15 Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately.

They taught the scriptures (The OT)
2Ti 3:16 Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

1Ti 4:13 Until I come, give attention to the public reading of scripture, to exhortation, to teaching.

Christian teaching
1Ti 6:1 Those who are under the yoke as slaves must regard their own masters as deserving of full respect. This will prevent the name of God and Christian teaching from being discredited.

Originally Posted by seekerman

What letters? Identify them.

Wow...how many times do I need to do that?

Seriously.
Roman church had Romans.
Corinth church had 1 and 2 Corinthians
Galatians had their letter etc etc etc..

And the verses I posted shows evidence they SHARED these Letters.

Include 1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this letter be read to all the holy brothers.

Which letters exactly each church had is irrelevant to what I have BEEN saying.

The early church had Letters, the Oral teachings of the Apostles and their fellow laborers and the OT scriptures

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Wow...how many times do I need to do that?

Seriously.
Roman church had Romans.
Corinth church had 1 and 2 Corinthians
Galatians had their letter etc etc etc..

And the verses I posted shows evidence they SHARED these Letters.

Include 1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this letter be read to all the holy brothers.

Which letters exactly each church had is irrelevant to what I have BEEN saying.

The early church had Letters, the Oral teachings of the Apostles and their fellow laborers and the OT scriptures

You're not starting at the beginning.

What letters, what scripture, was used the year after Jesus ascended? Or the first 20 years?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

You're not starting at the beginning.

What letters, what scripture, was used the year after Jesus ascended? Or the first 20 years?

I already answered that. I don't know. I just know the early church, before the canon was organized into One bible SHARED letters, HAD the Oral teachings of the Apostles and their fellow laborers AND they had the OT

The Oral teachings of the Apostles is the same as having Letters. When the church began in the first 20 years of so, it was not a million members spanning the world. Apostles and workers went from church to church teaching them. See the verses I posted.

They also already had the OT scriptures.

[Michael The Disciple]

The teachings of Christ were published by many at the beginning.

Luke 1:1-4

1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I already answered that. I don't know.

I do know, if the theologians are correct. The first letter was 1st Thessalonians or Galatians, depending on what scholar one wishes to believe and written about 30 years after Christ.. The point is, during those 30 formative years of the Church, there were no writings which are included in the final canon.

How did they grow the Church? By the leading of the Spirit.

I just know the early church, before the canon was organized into One bible SHARED letters, HAD the Oral teachings of the Apostles and their fellow laborers AND they had the OT

The Oral teachings of the Apostles is the same as having Letters. When the church began in the first 20 years of so, it was not a million members spanning the world. Apostles and workers went from church to church teaching them. See the verses I posted.

They also already had the OT scriptures.

Yes, they had the OT scriptures, but the New Covenant didn't have as it's foundation the Old Covenant. And yes, Christianity was spread by the members of that early, pre-canon church. When the letters began, that's when the breakup into different sects began. Within a couple of hundred years there were many many Christian sects who separated themselves from each other even though they had common letters. This is because they weren't spiritually led, but theology led and power hungry.

No scripture was given in the first few decades is the point. Yet the Church grew by leaps and bounds simply by allow the Spirit.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The teachings of Christ were published by many at the beginning.

Luke 1:1-4

1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Nothing there about any pre-apostolic letters. The earliest letters are about mid-first century.

[Praxeas]

They had the ORAL teachings of the Apostles. The Apostles were taught by Jesus and they in turn taught the church. They had the words of Jesus and the Apostles

In addition they had the OT.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by seekerman

I do know, if the theologians are correct. The first letter was 1st Thessalonians or Galatians, depending on what scholar one wishes to believe and written about 30 years after Christ.. The point is, during those 30 formative years of the Church, there were no writings which are included in the final canon.

How did they grow the Church? By the leading of the Spirit.



Yes, they had the OT scriptures, but the New Covenant didn't have as it's foundation the Old Covenant. And yes, Christianity was spread by the members of that early, pre-canon church. When the letters began, that's when the breakup into different sects began. Within a couple of hundred years there were many many Christian sects who separated themselves from each other even though they had common letters. This is because they weren't spiritually led, but theology led and power hungry.

No scripture was given in the first few decades is the point. Yet the Church grew by leaps and bounds simply by allow the Spirit.

No thats not the point. The point is they did NOT simply just "follow the Spirit".

They HAD scriptures, the OT. And they had the words of the Apostles and their fellow laborers.

Much of the NT quotes the OT.