Sinful housework

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

But you just said that if there is any 'tempting' in a temptation, then sin is there, it is sinful. Now you are saying Christ was tempted like we are, yet he did not give in to those temptation. Seems like one standard for Christ, another for us. He is tempted, and has 'the same fallen impulses' we do. But, in us, it indicates sin, in him, merely temptation.

????

Remember, sin is also a principle at work in our flesh. Something we're born with. We didn't ask for it. When one sins in deed, they are giving into the law of sin that is at work in the flesh. Jesus acted on the impulse.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Jesus never chewed anyone out without knowing that it was justified. Perfection seeks the facts prior to rebuke... else one rebukes on false pretenses. Something rampant in our movement.

Being morally perfect in a human cannot extend to perfect knowledge of all facts. It can extend to whatever knowledge one has of facts that are known, as they are known.

A man may honestly believe he has the facts, and act accordingly, and be morally perfect in that regard, and yet be mistaken as to the facts.

Although it might also be said one who is morally perfected by grace would, if the facts indicate a rebuke is in order, seek first to ask 'what's going on here?' rather than render a judgement. IE examine first, reserve judgement for after all the facts are in.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Being morally perfect in a human cannot extend to perfect knowledge of all facts. It can extend to whatever knowledge one has of facts that are known, as they are known.

True... However, if one doesn't inquire as to the facts before confrontation, are they not being "imperfect" or "missing the mark"? Could they not be guilty of wrongful accusation and character assassination? Could they not be sowing the root of bitterness? To jump all over someone without even having a regard for the facts, their motivations, and reasons why about a given thing is terribly carnal and reeks of arrogance.

A man may honestly believe he has the facts, and act accordingly, and be morally perfect in that regard, and yet be mistaken as to the facts.

If a man believes he has all the facts, and doesn't, has he not deceived himself? Has he not convinced himself of his own error? In some cases, has he not believed a self-told lie? How is that "morally perfect"?

For example, a soldier fires into the brush before authenticating if what he heard was enemy and kills 9 friendly soldiers. Morally perfect based on what he thought? Now we're lost on a sea of circumstantial morality. He is morally imperfect in that he FAILED to authenticate that he was about to engage enemy. Now lives are lost needlessly due to his gross misconduct. Hardly morally perfect. In fact... fearful and imperfect. Which... in many situations I can understand because I was in the military. But he'd never say he was morally perfect. He'll live his life saying, "I should have verified that they were enemy..."

Although it might also be said one who is morally perfected by grace would, if the facts indicate a rebuke is in order, seek first to ask 'what's going on here?' rather than render a judgement. IE examine first, reserve judgement for after all the facts are in.

Exactly. A morally perfect man would never launch into a tirade against another before inquiring as to what the issue truly is. The only exception would be if he stepped out in divine revelation by virtue of the gift of knowledge. Sadly, this has been used as a cloak too many times when men have been terribly carnal and incorrect in their biased assessments.

[Aquila]

The point is... the flesh is fallen and internally governed by the law of sin operating within it's nature. Therefore, while one may walk upright during a given day without committing sins of action... the very principle of sin is still at work in their members. They still have sin on account of nature. And this will only be changed when one is glorified in absolute sinless perfection. That is the perfection we strive to attain through keeping faith. Until then... they'll be subject to the desires of the flesh and have to keep on top of them. Given a weak moment be it anger, hurt, stress, physical desire, coveting, etc.... it can get the best of them. Thus... they are far from perfect in the sense that it is common used by Christian perfectionism. They can be perfect in their spiritual maturity wherein they increasingly grow in Christlikeness and instances of sin become less and less. Or if they sin... they turn to confession and repentance.

I know humble men in their 80's who continued to confess sin and turn towards the Lord in a repentant heart all the way up to their death bed. Now... that's honesty and integrity in an earthen vessel.

[Aquila]

Here's another thing... perfection would not lack any degree of faith. With faith the size of a mustard seed... one can allegedly move mountains. And all that Christ did and even greater things are we promised to do. If one has attained perfection... would they please step up and raise my brother from the dead? If they don't have the faith to even try... they have a varying degree of unbelief. Again, that is far from perfection. For perfection would step up, speak the word, and deliver from the grave. And is that not what Jesus Himself did in His perfection?

I'm always suspect of those who profess perfection. However, I am comforted by those who are perfect in where they are in Christ right now, although they may have more growing to do with regards to being more and more like Jesus... and are honest about it.

[Aquila]

If one desires to be "perfect" I believe they do well to grow in two areas...

-They should seek to grow in loving God with all of their being.
-They should demonstrate their growing love of God by growing in their love towards others. Ever increasingly loving others as themselves.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's another thing... perfection would not lack any degree of faith. With faith the size of a mustard seed... one can allegedly move mountains. And all that Christ did and even greater things are we promised to do. If one has attained perfection... would they please step up and raise my brother from the dead? If they don't have the faith to even try... they have a varying degree of unbelief. Again, that is far from perfection. For perfection would step up, speak the word, and deliver from the grave. And is that not what Jesus Himself did in His perfection?

I'm always suspect of those who profess perfection. However, I am comforted by those who are perfect in where they are in Christ right now, although they may have more growing to do with regards to being more and more like Jesus... and are honest about it.

I think you and I (and others?) are using different definitions or meanings of 'perfect'.

[houston]

What is sinful about housework?

Maybe housework should be sinful. Then we'd enjoy it.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If one desires to be "perfect" I believe they do well to grow in two areas...

-They should seek to grow in loving God with all of their being.
-They should demonstrate their growing love of God by growing in their love towards others. Ever increasingly loving others as themselves.

IF ONE DESIRES TO BE PERFECT?

I did not know we had a choice in the matter?

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matt 5:48

Or:

12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God Col. 4:12

So it looks like its not optional from here!

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's another thing... perfection would not lack any degree of faith. With faith the size of a mustard seed... one can allegedly move mountains. And all that Christ did and even greater things are we promised to do. If one has attained perfection... would they please step up and raise my brother from the dead? If they don't have the faith to even try... they have a varying degree of unbelief. Again, that is far from perfection. For perfection would step up, speak the word, and deliver from the grave. And is that not what Jesus Himself did in His perfection?

I'm always suspect of those who profess perfection. However, I am comforted by those who are perfect in where they are in Christ right now, although they may have more growing to do with regards to being more and more like Jesus... and are honest about it.

There is a difference between SINLESS PERFECTION and the anointing one has to minister. Everyone of us are called to be without sin.

Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame. 1 Cor. 15:30

Yet not all have the gifts of healing and miracles.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 1 Cor. 12:7-10