2 Peter 3

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

interesting, it seems you may be correct.

any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...gs=G4747&t=KJV

I believe that's what Paul meant in Gal 4 about the elements of the world, since he is speaking about Law. The elements of the world in Gal 4 are not BAD things. They're law keeping rites. Law is elementary. Elements are necessary and good building blocks. But Paul was saying there that the days of ABC building blocks of law keeping are gone. It's the same greek word used in Col 2 also where we read about the rudiments of the world.

Law was called elements of the world because it used material rituals and physical rites that formed as foreshadows of the new.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Amanah

For those who see the "new heaven and new earth" as the "new covenant," will there be a cutoff date for the earth?

People are destroying the earth, will be even be habitable in 100 years?

Or do you see terra firma continuing indefinitely?

I see no worries in 100 years. I disbelieve climate change, etc. The world, of all things, always goes on with some apocalytpic threat and warning in its fake politicing. In the 70's it was the lie of the energy crisis.

I am not sure if there will be a physical end of the earth, or e revamping, or whatever. But there is an end of the way of things as we know it, with mortality ending and a definite point when sinners are gone along with the devil and sin into the lake of fire..

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yeah, but we were shown the way of God more perfectly.

Like adding pecans?

[Esaias]

2 Peter 3:3-7 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


Psalms 50:1-6 A Psalm of Asaph. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. (2) Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined. (3) Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. (4) He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. (5) Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. (6) And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.

I do not believe the scoffers are necessarily scoffing at either the second or the first advent, but rather are scoffing at promised Divine Judgment. The contrast is between the old world order being destroyed by the Flood, and the then-current world order being destroyed by fire, as the result of Divine Judgment. "The promise of His coming" has to do with the visitation of God in Judgment destroying the world order, not necessarily either the first or second coming of Christ. Of course, whatever is connected to the visitation of Divine Judgment would be included in "His Coming", but again I do not think the apostle is SPECIFICALLY referring to people SPECIFICALLY scoffing at any particular coming of the Messiah, per se. Rather, they are going to be scoffing at the nearness of Divine Judgment.

The reason they scoff is because "all things continue" as they have been "since the fathers fell asleep." The fathers is a Hebraism for the Patriarchs: Noah, Shem, Eber, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, etc., and the early generations of Israelites. In other words, everything has remained since the Flood and there has been no world destroying cataclysmic Judgment. The scoffers are willingly ignorant of the fact that the word of judgment which brought the Flood will also bring a fire.

Not that there is a text in Genesis speaking of a fiery judgment, but rather that as demonstrated in the Flood it is the intention of God to judge sin and sinful man, so as to cleanse the earth from wickedness. No more to be by a flood implies either that God would never again judge the earth at all, OR that He would judge the earth by a different means.

The heavens and earth were not literally obliterated by the Flood, nor shall they be literally obliterated by fire. I could be wrong, we might all be wrong, but simply going by the Bible's own statements about these subjects, I have to conclude that the destruction is not of material reality itself, but of ungodly men (2 Peter 3:7, quoted above).

The idea is that the heavens and earth which are now are "kept in store, reserved" to that Judgment. This is the same type of language used by the apostle in reference to the ungodly:

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

The idea is that the wicked appear to be just continuing on with no end in sight, but the saints are encouraged and reminded that the judgment of the wicked is inevitable, howsoever long it may seem to be delayed:

Psalms 37:7-11 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. (8) Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. (9) For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth. (10) For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. (11) But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Psalms 37:34-36 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it. (35) I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree. (36) Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.

Peter is expressing the same concept, that though God's Judgment seems to tarry, that is, seems to be delayed, yet eventually it will come to pass, Judgment will certainly come, and the wicked shall be destroyed.

The "thousand years are as a day" passage is pointing out that we and God often view time differently. What seems like an awful long time for us is nothing to God. Thus, man's 70 years (80 if he is strong), which is a good long life for the average human, is really just a passing vapour barely worth mentioning in the grand scheme of things:

2 Peter 3:8-9 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

What men count as delay, or slackness, is in reality longsuffering or patience on God's part. The purpose of God's longsuffering (patience) is that He is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." Some have applied this to all mankind, but I think the context is clearly in favour of being applied to the saints, for he says "God... is longsuffering to us-ward." "Us" being the elect. God is saving His people, and that requires patience on His part, which foolish men interpret as slackness or apathy or unwarranted delay by God.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This is clearly the same event as described earlier in which the world-order will be destroyed by fire. Thus, the event of verse 4, and of verse 7, are the same as here in verse 10. The phrase "day of the Lord" however throws people off, because they think there is only one event in all history which is "the day of the Lord". The truth is, the Bible speaks of numerous different judgments, as "the day of the Lord". The day of the Lord is the time of visitation in judgment, whereby God is glorified. My thread "The Son of Man" in both the Fellowship Hall and in the Apostolic Articles section details the Bible uses of the phrase "day of the Lord" as a common, Scriptural term for Divine Judgments of various types, in various places, and at various times. In other words', there is no single one "day of the Lord", any time the Lord executes His role as Judge is "the day of the Lord", according to the Biblical usage of the phrase.

In any event, this "day of the Lord" is the day in which the world-order will be destroyed by fire as opposed to water, and will occur simultaneously with the "judgment and perdition of ungodly men".

2 Peter 3:11-12 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, (12) Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I want to focus on that phrase, "hasting unto the coming of the day of God". Here it is in Greek:

σπεύδοντας τὴν παρουσίαν τῆς τοῦ Θεοῦ ἡμέρας

Here is Green's Literal translation:

2Pe 3:12 looking for and hastening the coming of the Day of God, through which the heavens having been set afire will be dissolved; and burning, the elements will melt?

The Apostolic Bible Polyglot (English) reads thus:

2Pe 3:12 expecting and hastening the arrival of the day of God, by which the heavens being set on fire shall be loosed, and the elements being destroyed by fire shall melt away?

The text literally says the saints, knowing what's coming, ought to be looking for (anticipating) AND HASTENING THE ARRIVAL OF THE DAY. That is, the saints are literally involved in some manner with bringing the arrival of the Day of God, we are supposed to be doing something(s) that actually hastens or brings closer this Day of Divine Judgment in which evil is destroyed and in which righteousness is the norm, not the exception.

In other words, the TIME of this Day of Judgment is conditional in some sense upon the activity of the saints.

[Esaias]

Concerning "elements":

G4747
στοιχεῖον, τό:
I in a form of sun-dial, the shadow of the gnomon, the length of which in feet indicated the time of day, ὅταν ᾖ δεκάπουν τὸ ς . when the shadow is ten feet long, Ar. Ec. 652, v. Sch.; ὁπηνίκ' ἂν εἴκοσι ποδῶν . . τὸ ς. ᾖ Eub. 119.7, cf. Philem. 83 .
II element,
1 a simple sound of speech, as the first component of the syllable, Pl. Cra. 424d; τὸ ῥῶ τὸ ς . ib. 426d; γραμμάτων ς. καὶ συλλαβάς Id. Tht. 202e; ς. ἐστι φωνὴ ἀδιαίρετος Arist. Po. 1456b22; φωνῆς ς. καὶ ἀρχαὶ δοκοῦσιν εἶναι ταῦτ' ἐξ ὧν σύγκεινται αἱ φωναὶ πρώτων Id. Metaph. 998a23, cf. Gal. 15.6: — στοιχεῖα therefore, strictly, were different from letters ( γράμματα ), Diog.Bab.Stoic. 3.213, Sch.D.T. p.32, al., but are freq. not clearly distd. from them, as by Pl. Tht. l.c., Cra. 426d; τὰ ς. τῶν γραμμάτων τὰ τέτταρα καὶ εἴκοσι Aen.Tact. 31.21; ς. ε letter ε (in a filing-system), BGU 959.2 (ii A.D.); ἀκουόμενα ς . letters which are pronounced, A.D. Adv. 165.17; γράμματα and ς . are expressly identified by D.T. 630.32; the ς . and its name are confused by A.D. Synt. 29.1, but distd. by Hdn.Gr. ap. Choerob. in Theod. 1.340, Sch. D.T. l.c.: — κατὰ στοιχεῖον in the order of the letters, alphabetically, Rev_11:15 ( Ammian. ); dub.sens.in Plu. 2.422e.
2. in Physics, στοιχεῖα were the components into which matter is ultimately divisible, elements, reduced to four by Empedocles, who called them ῥιζὤματα, the word στοιχεῖα being first used (acc. to Eudem. ap. Simp. in Ph. 7.13 ) by Pl., τὰ πρῶτα οἱονπερεὶ ς, e)c w(=n h(mei=s te sugkei/meqa kaita)/lla Tht. 201e; τὰ τῶν πάντων ς . Plt. 278d; αὐτὰ τιθέμενοι ς. τοῦ παντός Ti. 48b, cf. Arist. GC 314a29, Metaph. 998a28, Thphr. Sens. 3, al., D.L. 3.24; ς. σωματικά Arist. Mete. 338a22, Thphr. Fr. 46; ἄτομα ς . Epicur. Ephesians 2 p.36U.; equivalent to ἀρχαί, Thales ap. Plu. 2.875c, Anaximand. ap. D.L. 2.1, Anon. ap. Arist. Ph. 188b28, Metaph. 1059b23, al.; but Arist. also distinguishes ς . from ἀρχή as less comprehensive, ib.1070b23; τὰ ς. ὕλη τῆς οὐσίας ib.1088b27; τρία τὰ ς . Id. Ph. 189b16; distd. from ἀρχή on other grounds by Stoic. 2.111; ς . used in three senses by Chrysipp., ib.136, cf. Zeno ib.1.24, al.; in Medicine, Gal. 6.3, 420, al., 15.7, al.; Αἰθέρ, κόσμου ς. ἄριστον Orph. H. 5.4; ἀνηλεὲς ς ., of the sea, Babr. 71.4; τὸ ς ., of the sea, Polem. Cyn. 44; ἄμφω τὰ ς ., i.e. land and sea, ib. 11, cf. Hdn. 3.1.5, Him. Ecc_2:18 .
3. the elements of proof, e.g. in general reasoning the πρῶτοι συλλογισμοί, Arist. Metaph. 1014b1; in Geometry, the propositions whose proof is involved in the proof of other propositions, ib. 998a26, 1014a36; title of geometrical works by Hippocrates of Chios, Leon, Theudios, and Euclid, Procl. in Euc. pp.66,67, 68F.: hence applied to whatever is one, small, and capable of many uses, Arist. Metaph. 1014b3; to whatever is most universal, e.g. the unit and the point, ib. 6; the line and the circle, Id. Top. 158b35; the τόπος (argument applicable to a variety of subjects), ib. 120b13, al., Rh. 1358a35, al.; στοιχεῖα τὰ γένη λέγουσί τινες Id. Metaph. 1014b10; τὸ νόμισμα ς. καὶ πέρας τῆς ἀλλαγῆς coin is the unit . . of exchange, Id. Pol. 1257b23; in Grammar, ς. τῆς λέξεως parts of speech, D.H. Comp. 2; but also, the letters composing a word, A.D. Synt. 313.7; letters of the alphabet, Diog. Bab. Stoic. 3.213; ς. τοῦ λόγου the elements of speech, viz. words, or the kinds of words, parts of speech, Thphr. ap. Simp. in Cat. 10.24, Chrysipp.Stoic. 2.45, A.D. Synt. 7.1, 313.6 .
4. generally, elementary or fundamental principle, ἀρξάμενοι ἀπὸ τῶν ς . X. Mem. 2.1.1; ς. χρηστῆς πολιτείας Isoc. 2.16; τὸ πολλάκις εἰρημένον μέγιστον ς . Arist. Pol. 1309b16; ς. τῆς ὅλης τέχνης Nicol.Com. 1.30, cf. Epicur. Ephesians 1 p.10U., Ephesians 3 p.59U., Phld. Rh. 1.127S., Gal. 6.306.
5. ἄστρων στοιχεῖα the stars, Man. 4.624; ς. καυσούμενα λυθήσεται 2Pet. 3.10, cf. 12; esp. planets, στοιχείῳ Διός PLond. 1.130.60 (i/ii A.D.); so perh. in Ep.Gal_4:3, Ep.Col_2:8; esp. a sign of the Zodiac, D.L. 6.102; of the Great Bear, PMag.Par. 1.1303.
6. ς. = ἀριθμός, as etym. of Στοιχαδεύς, Sch.D.T.p.192 H.

Not saying that is what Peter is referring to, just pointing out that the word in Greek has a range of meanings including that of the stars/planets/constellations.

[Esaias]

And Vincent's Word Studies offers this counter-point:

The Greek grammarians called the categories of letters arranged according to the organs of speech συστοιχίαι. Here the word is of course used in a physical sense, meaning the parts of which this system of things is composed. Some take it as meaning the heavenly bodies, but the term is too late and technical in that sense. Compare Mat_24:29, the powers of the heaven.

[Amanah]

I'm going to reread 2 Peter in the light of the comments you all have made and see if I can put it in context.

[mfblume]

When the Bible says one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is one day in Peter, he is not saying that time to him is different than time to us. He's saying that it's no harder for God to cause a prophecy to be fulfilled after thousand years then it is for him to do so after one day. The issue was that so much time had passed and nothing had happened. So, he's trying to say that people scoff and think it won't come back past because so much time has passed.

[Michael The Disciple]

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Esaias

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This is clearly the same event as described earlier in which the world-order will be destroyed by fire. Thus, the event of verse 4, and of verse 7, are the same as here in verse 10. The phrase "day of the Lord" however throws people off, because they think there is only one event in all history which is "the day of the Lord". The truth is, the Bible speaks of numerous different judgments, as "the day of the Lord".

The phrase "day of the Lord" is used very specifically by the Apostles. True the Old Testament references the day of the Lord in other circumstances as judgments to various nations.

However when we get to Jesus and the apostles it has a focus of his literal coming again.

Luke 17:22-24

22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

The day of Christ is the same as the day of the Lord in the New Testament. While certainly he was aware of the Old Testament scriptures concerning that day, he points us to the fact that it is HIS DAY.

Luke 17:28-30

28Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

In our age of the New Testament Jesus is the focus of the day of the Lord. The day in which he comes AND ALSO brings judgment to the unbelievers.

[Michael The Disciple]

Let us remember that Jesus is BOTH....Lord and Christ.

Acts 2:36

36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

With that in mind let us examine the apostle Paul's teaching concerning that day.

1 Cor. 1:7

7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Pauls point here is the day of the LORD Jesus Christ. The day when he will come for the saints.

2 Cor. 1:13-4

13For we write none other things unto you, than what ye read or acknowledge; and I trust ye shall acknowledge even to the end; 14As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Again he points the Corinthians to "the end" which to him is the DAY OF THE LORD JESUS.

So to Paul the day of the Lord means both "the end" of the present age or "order" and the coming of Jesus.

Philippians 1:6

6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Phil. 1:9-10

9And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment; 10That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;

Phil. 2:16

16Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Three times Paul mentions the "day of Christ" as the day of HIS COMING for the saints just to this one Church at Philippi. If you mentioned the day of the Lord to those disciples TO THEM you would have been talking about the time when Jesus was coming FOR THEM!

But....is Paul done yet teaching about the coming day of the Lord Jesus?

To the Thessalonians he writes:

1 Thess 4:15-17

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Paul here describes the personal coming of Jesus to receive his people to himself. The event in our time commonly called the rapture. What some fail to see is that Paul just TWO VERSES LATER calls this the DAY OF THE LORD!

1 Thess 5:1-3



1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

So the apostle Paul did NOT separate the day of the Lord from the coming judgment. He packages them together. The day of the Lord TO HIM being that which he just described TWO VERSES EARLIER.....even the coming of Christ for the saints and judgment on those who were sleeping spiritually.

End of part 1.