So they are saved at repentance and will make it in the pearly gates, even if they don't get baptized by water and the spirit?
That is my understanding of the Scriptures.
Water and Spirit baptism are very important.
In Acts chapter 2 (30 AD) there were 3000 who were water baptized. We don't read whether or not any received the Holy Ghost Baptism.
In Acts chapter 8 (winter AD 31/32)
when Philip went to Samaria, many received the word (got saved) and were water baptized and two Apostles were sent down to pray with them and minister the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism). Verse 17 says, "Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit."
In Acts chapter 8, Philip made sure the eunuch believed in Jesus and then he baptized him in water. Some old versions of the text show that the Eunuch received the HGB. They read, "Then he commanded the chariot to stand still and they wend down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water the Spirit of the Lord fell upon the eunuch, and the angel of the Lord snatched Philip away."
In Acts chapter 9 (January AD 32), Saul made a commitment to Jesus on the road outside of Damascus. Three days later Ananias came into him and said he came "that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." He laid his hand on Saul and we assume that's when he received the HGB. Then he told Saul "So now, what are you waiting for? Get up; immerse yourself and have your sins washed away as you call on His name" (Acts 22:16)
In Acts chapter 10 (AD 38) as Peter preached the Gentiles believed the Gospel and the Holy Ghost fell on them. Then Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
In Acts chapter 16 (summer AD 50) it tells about a business woman who heard the word and the Lord opened her heart and then she and her household were baptized in water. There is no mention of the HGB.
Later in that chapter we read of the jailer who believed with all his family and all his family were baptized in water. Again, there is no mention of the HGB.
In Acts 18 (fall AD 51) in Corinth, Paul began by preaching in a synagogue and then moved to a house for meetings and we read that "many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed, and were baptized (18:8). There is no mention of the HGB but we find out later that there was a lot of tongue speaking going on at that church and Paul told them "...you were enriched n everything by Him in all utterance..."(I Cor 1:4) and when he speaks about their baptism the wording indicates that they had been baptized in the name of the one who was crucified for them (1 Cor 1:13-17).
In Acts 19 (October AD 53) Paul preached to some disciples of John the Baptist and explained the Gospel and afterwards they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
So, the way I understand the early church, after people were saved or converted they were water baptized right away, (even the same day or night some times). Also, it is some times recorded that these new believers received the HGB.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
How will our mortal bodies be quickened without the Holy Ghost? How will our sins be remitted without having been baptized in His name?
The standard teaching about the new birth and salvation as preached by many Apostolic or Oneness Pentecostal ministers, including UPC officials, and as taught in some UPC schools is:
A person is justified (made right with God); saved (delivered from sin's penalty and power and from eternal death); and born again (enters the family of God) at repentance/conversion. At that time Jesus comes into the person's heart as the Holy Spirit. So the Holy Spirit is living within. At that time the person's sins are forgiven/remitted (the same Greek word is translated forgiveness in some places and remission in other places).
So a person has the indwelling Spirit (for quickening) and has his/her sins forgiven/remitted at justification/conversion/regeneration.
That conversion/salvation experience is followed by water baptism using the name of Jesus plus maybe some titles like "Lord" and/or "Christ"
Each Christian is encouraged to receive an enduement of power called the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism) the same way that Jesus encouraged His disciples to seek for and receive that experience called "the promise of the Father" (Acts 1:4-8)
This is nothing new. It's been preached in our Oneness Pentecostal and Apostolic (UPC and other organizations) churches for years. Some of you just haven't heard it that way before.
This is why the fundamental doctrine statement was worded the way it was when the UPC was formed in 1945. It gave room for both one-steppers and thee-steppers to come together in fellowship and cooperation with mutual respect for one another's views.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Please let me say that I love everyone. If there is to be understanding
we need to "talk" about these things in the spirit of brotherly, sisterly love.
The love of Christ shed abroad in our by the Holy Ghost. To become upset
or provoked helps no one.
Blessings,
Falla39
I agree. The Apostolic pioneers were one-steppers and three-steppers and some of them agreed to form the United Pentecostal church in 1945. They agreed to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit and not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.
Today we use the terms PCI one-stepper and PAJC three-stepper to describe those views but I do not think we should put one another down or judge one another when we see things differently. We are all one Body and we are brothers and sisters in the Lord.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
In Acts chapter 2 (30 AD) there were 3000 who were water baptized. We don't read whether or not any received the Holy Ghost Baptism.
In Acts chapter 8 (winter AD 31/32)
when Philip went to Samaria, many received the word (got saved) and were water baptized and two Apostles were sent down to pray with them and minister the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism). Verse 17 says, "Then they began laying their hands on them, and they were receiving the Holy Spirit."
In Acts chapter 8, Philip made sure the eunuch believed in Jesus and then he baptized him in water. Some old versions of the text show that the Eunuch received the HGB. They read, "Then he commanded the chariot to stand still and they wend down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch: and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water the Spirit of the Lord fell upon the eunuch, and the angel of the Lord snatched Philip away."
In Acts chapter 9 (January AD 32), Saul made a commitment to Jesus on the road outside of Damascus. Three days later Ananias came into him and said he came "that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit." He laid his hand on Saul and we assume that's when he received the HGB. Then he told Saul "So now, what are you waiting for? Get up; immerse yourself and have your sins washed away as you call on His name" (Acts 22:16)
In Acts chapter 10 (AD 38) as Peter preached the Gentiles believed the Gospel and the Holy Ghost fell on them. Then Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
In Acts chapter 16 (summer AD 50) it tells about a business woman who heard the word and the Lord opened her heart and then she and her household were baptized in water. There is no mention of the HGB.
Later in that chapter we read of the jailer who believed with all his family and all his family were baptized in water. Again, there is no mention of the HGB.
In Acts 18 (fall AD 51) in Corinth, Paul began by preaching in a synagogue and then moved to a house for meetings and we read that "many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed, and were baptized (18:8). There is no mention of the HGB but we find out later that there was a lot of tongue speaking going on at that church and Paul told them "...you were enriched n everything by Him in all utterance..."(I Cor 1:4) and when he speaks about their baptism the wording indicates that they had been baptized in the name of the one who was crucified for them (1 Cor 1:13-17).
In Acts 19 (October AD 53) Paul preached to some disciples of John the Baptist and explained the Gospel and afterwards they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, and when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them and they spoke with tongues and prophesied.
So, the way I understand the early church, after people were saved or converted they were water baptized right away, (even the same day or night some times). Also, it is some times recorded that these new believers received the HGB.
Thanks, Sam. I like how you put that all together, and I agree with your closing statements.
However, that wasn't my question. While it's true that people were baptised and/or received the HGB about the same time, what if they didn't feel the need to continue after repentance? I mean, if one is told they are saved, why bother with the rest?
That's what I really want to know, and how do the one-steppers deal with that.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Thanks, Sam. I like how you put that all together, and I agree with your closing statements.
However, that wasn't my question. While it's true that people were baptised and/or received the HGB about the same time, what if they didn't feel the need to continue after repentance? I mean, if one is told they are saved, why bother with the rest?
That's what I really want to know, and how do the one-steppers deal with that.
I can't answer for all one-steppers but here are my personal thoughts on that.
I believe that a person is saved when he/she calls on the Lord for mercy and makes a personal commitment to Him. In my opinion, this would include someone who went forward in a Billy Graham Crusade, would include a soldier in a foxhole, would include a little child at his mother's knee praying in family devotions, would include someone responding to an altar call in a Oneness Church, etc. I believe that justification/salvation/regeneration happens at that time. Many of those folks know nothing about water baptism in Jesus' name and many do not know about the Holy Ghost Baptism. Some, if they heard about Acts 2:38, would filter it through their current understanding of the Bible (like we all do with stuff we hear) and may consider it a false teaching. In my opinion that would not affect their salvation. Some sincere Christians have been taught that speaking with tongues ceased with the Apostles. Others have been taught that speaking with tongues is demonic. I don't know people's hearts. I don't know why folks aren't baptized in Jesus' name and why they do not receive the HGB. I have to leave that between them and God.
It is my understanding that in the early NT church, salvation was followed by water baptism. It is my understanding that the name of Jesus was mentioed in that water baptism. It is my understanding that Christians in the early NT curch were encouraged to receive the HGB. In my understanding, that would be the norm for today but because of: what we have been taught; our understanding of the Scriptures; and our own sincerety and personal commitment, we may fall short of the NT norm.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I agree. The Apostolic pioneers were one-steppers and three-steppers and some of them agreed to form the United Pentecostal church in 1945. They agreed to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit and not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.
Today we use the terms PCI one-stepper and PAJC three-stepper to describe those views but I do not think we should put one another down or judge one another when we see things differently. We are all one Body and we are brothers and sisters in the Lord.
Yes sir!!
I might add this...the PAJCer is often referred to as a 3-stepper, however, IMO, this is a misnomer, at least for me.
If there are indeed 'steps', the first one is not repentance.
One must first hear the Word of faith and follow that with belief before they can ever move on to repentance.
If it were as easy as one or three steps then it would be simple
but only God knows what lies within our hearts.For some it takes
years to get to the point of repentance.Jesus works with each
soul individually.Its not just believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you
are saved. its you shall be saved.It take more it take obedience to the
Word.It takes more than one or three steps but it takes a born again
bible experience that does not fall short of what the Apostles preached
and taught.
It's not one step, two steps, or three steps......it's the recipe of salvation. First you have to put repentance in the bowl, then you can mix the rest as you see fit. Receive the Holy Ghost, then be baptized in Jesus Name or be baptized in Jesus name then receive the Holy Ghost it don't matter which way, it's a matter of having all the ingredients.......
__________________
Psa 119:165 (KJV) 165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.
"Do not believe everthing you read on the internet" - Abe Lincoln
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