How can a New Organization be born out of Chaos? - Page 4

Sam · #31 10-17-2007, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson

...
Is is unrealistic to expect pastors to play by the same rules set for everyone else?
...
I

Yes, it is unrealistic.
These guys set up rules for others to obey.
They themselves don't have to follow them.

1 Then Jesus said to the crowds, and to his disciples, 2 You would think these Jewish leaders and these Pharisees were Moses, the way they keep making up so many laws! 3 And of course you should obey their every whim! It may be all right to do what they say, but above anything else, don't follow their example. For the don't do what they tell you to do. 4 They load you with impossible demands that they themselves don't even try to keep.
Matthew 23:1-4 TLB

Falla39 · #32 10-17-2007, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big-larry

I'm no ultra con, so the rumored meeting in Tulsa, is a non-issue for me, but according to Paul Yongi Cho: "Everything good comes from chaos." He should know, being the pastor of the world's largest church.

Big-Larry,

A passage of scripture came to mind as I read your post. Heb. 12: 26,27,

in part; "....Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven".

"And this word, Yet once more , signifieth the removing of those things

that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which

cannot be shaken may remain".

After an earthquake, there are some things that remain standing. Most

likely buildings that have a good foundation will be the ones still standing.

After all the wind, noise, hail, etc., of a storm, there are those things

that remain because they could not be shaken. Like the man who built

his house on the rock. It stood while others fell. When chaos happens

only those things which are founded on the Rock Christ Jesus will still

be standing. It is then manifest whose house was really built on the

right foundation.

Blessings,

Falla39

anapko · #33 10-17-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Yes, it is unrealistic.
These guys set up rules for others to obey.
They themselves don't have to follow them.

Wow!!! Great comment! It is true that what seems to me is that the Tulsa meeting is about a group of men who won't obey what the organization they claim to love has passed. And the original post on this thread states that it will go down. I'm not happy about it, but it shows me that this group of men are like the little boy who comes playing football, the only problem is he brought the football. And when he gets upset, or things don't go his way, he takes his football and goes home. " Yeah, that's how we'll get back at those liberals, we'll start our own organization" Great post, I enjoyed it!

revrandy · #34 10-17-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson

Hi Josh!

It's me. I keep turning up like a bad penny.

and....thanks for your kindness.

Actually, I am curious as to the thinking of those that are forging ahead with plans to (possibly) split off.

It seems to me that there is a double standard that is being held...one that a pastor expects from his unhappy saints....and a completely different one should he become unhappy with the organization.

Is is unrealistic to expect pastors to play by the same rules set for everyone else?

I ask the questions not to stir the pot.....but then again if one doesn't stir the pot every now and then....then what's inside tends to scorch.

Parson

Parson...I think the answers lies in the fact they don't look at the UPC as a God Given Organization...it's just a fellowship (which makes it easier on the conscience)...there have been those who post here don't believe that Superintendants...Presbyters...and leaders aren't God given posts... it's more about a Man Made Goverment than it is God's Kingdom...

and therefore it takes any type of Authority it may have in their lives out of the question...

What we are seeing here is Every Man doing Right in His Own Eyes...and I fear God has very little to do with any of it...

RandyWayne · #35 10-17-2007, 10:15 PM

How can a New Organization be born out of Chaos?

The first thing that pops into my skinny little head is the writing and signing of our Declaration of Independence and then later the Constitution. Those meetings where anything but civil.

In fact the bible itself has a few books which just barely made it in.... Such as the book of Revelations.

Parson · #36 10-18-2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

For the don't do what they tell you to do. 4 They load you with impossible demands that they themselves don't even try to keep.

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

Admittedly, the USA and its government came out of chaos. But again, it is an exception and not the rule.

Perhaps the Tulsa meeting will produce an organization that will thrive and be very effective in fulling the Great Commission.

Or perhaps it will become just another of the more than one hundred different oneness organizations that now exist.

Parson

deacon blues · #37 10-18-2007, 04:43 AM

Its good to see Parson and Timlan here! How are you men doing? We have missed you!

Nahum · #38 10-19-2007, 12:10 PM

Quote:

How can a New Organization be born out of Chaos?

Perhaps the better question would be "how long can an organization in perpetual chaos continue to exist?"

At some point something's gotta bend, or collapse is inevitable.

josh · #39 10-19-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

Okay, Parson is a smart guy but I'm young and naive.

What is the difference, Josh? (Not picking a fight, just how do you describe the difference?)

This is how I see the difference...

The organization is like the PTA at the school. It helps and facillitates certain things. However, whether I am in or out of the PTA is of little concern to my boys and their attendance at school. Two totally different sets of rules and expectations.

If I decide to quit the PTA, or even question their motives, it would be quit different than my boys doing the same with the teachers or principal. The parent association is a gathering of my peers. My boys are not peers with their teachers.

josh · #40 10-19-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson

Hi Josh!

It's me. I keep turning up like a bad penny.

and....thanks for your kindness.

Actually, I am curious as to the thinking of those that are forging ahead with plans to (possibly) split off.

It seems to me that there is a double standard that is being held...one that a pastor expects from his unhappy saints....and a completely different one should he become unhappy with the organization.

Is is unrealistic to expect pastors to play by the same rules set for everyone else?

I ask the questions not to stir the pot.....but then again if one doesn't stir the pot every now and then....then what's inside tends to scorch.

Parson

Parson,

My above post described what I think is the difference and why the rules are different.

Of course, if one looks at the UPC as the church on a larger scale, rather than a fellowship of peers in the ministry, then they would tend to disagree.

My personal thinking concerning Tulsa is that if one man-made organization has failed to maintain what I'm looking for, then the next one will, too.

Man-made organizations will always have certain failures built in... Nothing against them, but we can't expect them to be the church.