The Cross of Christ Alone Can Save

[TheLegalist]

and still... no answer. What also is amazing is the scripture clearly teaches when the blood is applied as blood and death are synonymous. Romans 6 says when we are united with him in his death.

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

and still... no answer.

How plainer could I have been?

"As Christian believers, we are only "saved" from one thing: The wrath of God; that is, the rightful punishment for our sinful rebellion. Given the fact that we are only saved from a single amercement, it is cumbersome to think that we need different "acts" (or "works" or whatever) to clear the debt. A single act suffices and that act is the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ."

You sound like "Baghdad Bob," TheLegalist. Denial, self deception... the works.

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

What also is amazing is the scripture clearly teaches when the blood is applied as blood and death are synonymous. Romans 6 says when we are united with him in his death.

Rom 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?

Was the blood of Jesus Christ shed in the tomb or at the cross? See also Galatians 2:20-21.

T.L. - How do you feel about Mike's hypothetical "Guy Who Dies in the Car on the Way to be Baptized?" Mike asserts that such a man is saved inspite of the fact that he was never water baptized. Would you agree?

[pelathais]

Yeah. And Jeffery - do I have your permission to post your Private Messages from this evening?

Cyberstalking is so ugly.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Yeah. And Jeffery - do I have your permission to post your Private Messages from this evening?

Cyberstalking is so ugly.

Sorry, NOW, I don't think Pel can be an advocate against condescension.

Cyberstalking LOL You're hilarious.

[Jeffrey]

Actually... the exact quote of mine:

I had an impression of you initially on AFF as the articulate sage. Amazing what 48 hours can do.

[Jeffrey]

Feeling the love on the "Cross of Christ" thread hahaha.

[Jeffrey]

Question for TL and Blume (and others) -- do you agree with this excerpt from the Augsburg Confession?

For it is false [I thus conclude, and am certain that it is a fiction,
and not true] that we merit the remission of sins by our works.

False also is this, that men are accounted righteous before God
because of the righteousness of reason [works and external piety].

False also is this that reason, by its own strength, is able to love
God above all things, and to fulfil God's Law, namely, truly to fear
God to be truly confident that God hears prayer, to be willing to
obey God in death and other dispensations of God, not to covet what
belongs to others, etc.; although reason can work civil works.

Are we capable, by our own will, of even loving God and wanting to obey Him?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Question for TL and Blume (and others) -- do you agree with this excerpt from the Augsburg Confession?

For it is false [I thus conclude, and am certain that it is a fiction, and not true] that we merit the remission of sins by our works.

False also is this, that men are accounted righteous before God because of the righteousness of reason [works and external piety].

False also is this that reason, by its own strength, is able to love God above all things, and to fulfil God's Law, namely, truly to fear God to be truly confident that God hears prayer, to be willing to obey God in death and other dispensations of God, not to covet what belongs to others, etc.; although reason can work civil works.

Are we capable, by our own will, of even loving God and wanting to obey Him?

I believe that ability to love God is offered to us to join with the ability we already have to love Him by choice. We can choose to accept that offer with our own reasoning and then God enjoins with us and empowers us to be able to love Him to the fullest.

It looks like the Lutherans here are saying even conscious decisions are impossible for us to make on our own in order to get so far away from salvation by works, that they believe predestination like the Calvinists. This leads to the Calvinistic and Lutheran belief that we can never really have victory over sin, either. I think their belief stems from a non-regenerate heart that has to excuse lack of victory in their lives over sin, so they conclude God predestines who will be saved, and one will not lose their salvation regardless of how much sin one commits. So I distance myself from any Lutheran and Calvinistic proposals. They have an agenda of concocting an excuse for lack of spiritual victory.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I believe that ability to love God is offered to us to join with the ability we already have to love Him by choice. We can choose to accept that offer with our own reasoning and then God enjoins with us and empowers us to be able to love Him to the fullest.

It looks like the Lutherans here are saying even conscious decisions are impossible for us to make on our own in order to get so far away from salvation by works, that they believe predestination like the Calvinists. This leads to the Calvinistic and Lutheran belief that we can never really have victory over sin, either. I think their belief stems from a non-regenerate heart that has to excuse lack of victory in their lives over sin, so they conclude God predestines who will be saved, and one will not lose their salvation regardless of how much sin one commits. So I distance myself from any Lutheran and Calvinistic proposals. They have an agenda of concocting an excuse for lack of spiritual victory.

Absolutely and Totaly agree! Mike think about it. The doctrine they teach truly is falling away from the realization of Grace! As Grace is the law of God placed on our hearts through the blood of Christ BY WHICH WE ACTUALLY OVERCOME SIN! Not simply positionally but OVERCOME by doing his will.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Absolutely and Totaly agree! Mike think about it. The doctrine they teach truly is falling away from the realization of Grace! As Grace is the law of God placed on our hearts through the blood of Christ BY WHICH WE ACTUALLY OVERCOME SIN! Not simply positionally but OVERCOME by doing his will.

Wow. Powerful thought! GRACE is DIVINE EMPOWERMENT! Talk about distorting grace by trying to understand it better! Hooboy!