Are all Catholics lost?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Lots of people are comfortable having no idea and some are even on psychotropic drugs.

yes, ok, i forget that you are here to crack jokes mostly
there's another "poll" floating around that you might be more at home commenting in; i notice your side is getting basted here, wadr.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, they are as lost as potatoes.

Agree, for different reasons.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mfblume

This entire thread should not be entitled "Are all Catholics lost?" because that is not the point of concern. It should be entitled "Are all who disbelieve the Bible lost?" or "Are all who have a misinterpretation of the bible lost?"

bump

[shazeep]

but again you would make a meaningless poll, where you get to direct the outcomes, surely that is obvious to you. Who is going to disagree? I mean, so you now agree that you are lost and will die in your sins if you do not change your mind, because you are now persuaded by the countless Scriptures that condemn you? You think now you should stop arguing with Christ and maybe reflect upon how He is stating the principles of salvation better than the men who determined your gospel? Are you admitting that God is the only one qualified to judge the heart of a person?

No, you are not, are you? Can you even see how that would just be another self-indulgent poll, with you as the director (rather than Christ?) Or would i get to direct, like in the paragraph above, since i made the poll, supposedly? Go ahead then, and make us another poll, Mr Blume

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

but again you would make a meaningless poll,

Just like yours right here, where you got to direct the outcomes. Hypocrisy has no bounds.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

because you are now persuaded by the countless Scriptures that condemn you?

Itemize them and let us respond to them.

You think now you should stop arguing with Christ and maybe reflect upon how He is stating the principles of salvation better than the men who determined your gospel?

Show us what Christ said that we arguer against and let us respond. Or is it easier to make the claim without providing substance for it?

Are you admitting that God is the only one qualified to judge the heart of a person?

Of course he is the only qualified to judge. And He happened to share with us in His word what He bases that judgment upon. You seem to disagree. Why? You manifest disagreement that what is recorded in his word is foundation for us to know how he will judge. Why?

No, you are not, are you?

I just did.

I will again. ONLY GOD is qualified to judge the heart of a person. Not us.

Can you even see how that would just be another self-indulgent poll, with you as the director (rather than Christ?) Or would i get to direct, like in the paragraph above, since i made the poll, supposedly? Go ahead then, and make us another poll, Mr Blume

Like your self-indulgent poll?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Just like yours right here, where you got to direct the outcomes. Hypocrisy has no bounds.

i directed outcomes here? Can you explain how? I actually took your quote, and changed it to a question; i can go dig it up if you like? "All Catholics are lost." "Are all Catholics lost?"

Can you tell us how you would sanitize this...oh, wait, i guess you already did. Ok, i guess you are right, Mr B, and i am wasting my time here.

[Dordrecht]

If they are not born again they will be lost.
And I doubt anyone who keeps going to the catholic church would be born again.

I know a few that became born again and they stopped going there.

It's t h a t simple.

[shazeep]

as long as you get to define what born again means, i'm sure it is, but you might note how "Love is for the confused" gets incorporated along the way, somehow. Oh, and "miracles" = "operations," not sure when that happened

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i directed outcomes here? Can you explain how? I actually took your quote, and changed it to a question; i can go dig it up if you like? "All Catholics are lost." "Are all Catholics lost?"

Can you tell us how you would sanitize this...oh, wait, i guess you already did. Ok, i guess you are right, Mr B, and i am wasting my time here.

Here is your dishonesty for what it is:

Yes, I made that statement, and flooded its surroundings with qualified explanations, and even said over and over again that the REAL issue is NOT PEOPLE, BUT DOCTRINE. That's why, for goodness' sake, I kept parroting to you ad nauseum that it should be a poll asking "Are all people who do not obey the bible's plan of salvation lost?" And you kept jabbing me about YES OR NO, and remarked over and over how I casually write people off who don't agree with me, right while I was proving it was NOT CAUSAL WHATSOEVER by the very fact that I was flooding the thread with pushing toward emphasis of DOCTRINE NOT PEOPLE. Just by inundating the thread with THAT emphasis, I was proving there was nothing causal about it, and how I do not want to even deal with the personal issue of "Are all catholics lost?" And while my emphasis being in doctrine and not people was there right in front of you showing I';m far from causal in my statements, you spoke as though I was causal and accused me of being gutless since I would NOT CASUALLY make that claim. You kept insisting, IOW, I make a casual judgment, while I was going far beyond reasonable measures to prove it was polar opposite of causal. And I kept trying to realign the nature of the issue to DOCTRINE AND NOT PEOPLE.

So the dishonesty in all of this on your part is directing me to fall into your predetermined trap of CASUALLY dismissing people to hell.

Also, you never got the point of how YOUR claims of Catholics include anyone who casually (if you want to use that term so badly) calls themselves a catholic whether they follow strict catholic dogma or not, (and you emphasized THAT). whereas I repeatedly said MY reference is to those who abide by catholic doctrine detailingly. And I noticed how you stuck to YOUR definition of the term and pointed an accusing finger at me with that in mind after I clarified it by saying I mean those who stick to their doctrine, including the belief that everyone not catholic is going to hell.