Is baptism essential unto salvation? - Page 49

Sam · #**481** 06-20-2009, 06:51 PM

I personally believe the name "Jesus" was spoken audibly in early Christian baptism.

This may be reflected in James 2:7 in the Amplified Bible which says:
"Is it not they who slander and blaspheme that precious name by which you are distinguished and called [the name of Christ invoked in baptism]?"

Also by a comment by William Barclay in his comment on James 2:7 in his notes:
"It is the rich who abuse the name by which the Christians are called. It may be the name Christian by which the heathen first called the followers of Christ at Antioch and which was given at first as a jest. It may be the name of Christ, which was pronounced over a Christian on the day of his baptism. The word James uses for called (epikaleisthai) is the word used for a wife taking her husband's name in marriage or for a child being called after his father. The Christian takes the name of Christ; he is called after Christ. It is as if he was married to Christ, or born and christened into the family of Christ."
page 67 of The Letters of James and Peter

However, some believe that in places like Acts 2:38, 10:48 and others where the expression of being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ or in the name of the Lord is used, it means in the authority of Jesus or as authorized by Jesus. So, people who understand it that way go to see where Jesus authorized baptism and by whom and they use the words of Matthew 28:19 as Jesus spoke them. To them that is being baptized in Jesus' name because they use the words He used with His disciples.

I've also seen Acts 2:38 paraphrased as "be baptized in the name of Jesus who was anointed for the the forgiveness of your sins."

I have heard (so this is hearsay) of two UPC churches (one in Louisiana and one in Ohio) who use the following formula when baptizing a person, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost."

Hoovie · #**482** 06-20-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

That is what I teach. My question is not whether baptism is essential to salvation; my question is why would a person not be baptized?
an interesting side note; in the church where I serve on staff (a Charismatic church of about 350 in regular attendance) I do most of the baptizing. When the senior pastor saw me baptize the firsst time he asked me where I learned to baptize like that (I combine Matthew 28:19 and Acts 2:38) then declared that is the way this church will baptize from now on. So, in this otherwise trinitarian church, everyone who has been baptized here over the past four years has been baptized in Jesus name.

Yeah mine too. It's not like there is this huge anti-baptism movement...

Hey that is great about speaking the name at the baptisms. It would be awesome if this caught on with all churches.

Hoovie · #**483** 06-20-2009, 06:58 PM

While I would not discount all baptisms not done the way we understand the New Testament church to have baptised, I would teach what I believe and encourage all who hear to be baptised in water as adults, calling on the name of Jesus.

LUKE2447 · #**484** 06-20-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

Actually, unless I missed something, the passage you refer to in Romans does not mention the blood of Christ. HOwever, here is a scripture that applies the blood at the point of faith in Christ:

Romans 3:25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

The following scriptures do not contain the words "faith" and "blood" in the same sentence, but in context the subject is faith in Christ: Romans 5:9, Hebrews 9:14, 1 John 1:7, Revelation 1:5.

I looked diligently but I didn't find any scripture that directly linked baptism and the application of the blood.

again read what I said. death is synonmous with blood. Without the shedding of blood (which is talking about sacrificial death) there is no remission of sins. Thus when it is said to be united with the death of Christ it is referencing the shedding of blood which is to be united with him and his saving act which is his death/blood/sacrifice. THus Romans 6 is clearly a reference to the blood/act/sacrifice/death of Christ be united or applied to us.

watch the debate with the COC on baptism on the Ankerberg show on youtube and even the people that believe baptism is non essential say they are the same and synonymous uses. THus baptism is clearly identified as the point of the blood/death of Christ be united.

Adino · #**485** 06-20-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HopePreacher

If the blood is already applied, then what does faith do?

Faith brings the justification of life. God grants justification and life to those who believe in the historic finished sin remission of the Cross (John 3:15-16, John 3:36; John 5:24; John 6:40,47; John 11:25,26; Romans 4:5; Romans 5:18; Acts 13:39).

The heart which does not rest in faith that sin was historically dealt with by God through Christ at Calvary remains in condemnation (John 3:18; John 3:36; John 16:8-9). Those who do not believe remain condemned, not because of those sins already remitted on the Cross, but because they've rejected Christ.

Man either:

1) Passes into a state of justification and spiritual LIFE by accepting with a heart of faith the record God gave of his Son setting to seal that God is true.... (John 3:33; 1John 5:13)

OR...

2) Man calls God a liar by rejecting the record he gave of his Son and REMAINS SPIRITUALLY DEAD in a state of condemnation. (1John 5:10-12; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 16:8-9)

The historic application of Christ's shed blood to those sins imputed to him at Calvary resulted in the remission of those sins PRIOR to the resurrection. Christ's blood was applied to our sin (imputed to Christ) and accepted by God PRIOR to the resurrection, else Christ would not have been raised.

If we say the blood of Christ needs to be applied to our sins AGAIN, we are saying the work of the Cross was inadequate and ineffective. If we say the blood needs to be applied today..... we do not have faith in the finished work of the Cross.

Do you believe the blood of Christ, already applied to our sins BEFORE the resurrection, needs to be applied to our sins again today?

LUKE2447 · #**486** 06-20-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Yeah mine too. It's not like there is this huge anti-baptism movement...

Hey that is great about speaking the name at the baptisms. It would be awesome if this caught on with all churches.

LOL, he doesn't even say in the name of Jesus. He says that at F,S,HS and the "into" on JEsus name. Sorry but it's a hack job on the Word!

Adino · #**487** 06-21-2009, 09:17 PM

Anyone,

Does the blood of Christ, already applied to our sins BEFORE the resurrection, need to be applied to our sins again today?

Hoovie · #**488** 06-21-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adino

Anyone,

Does the blood of Christ, already applied to our sins BEFORE the resurrection, need to be applied to our sins again today?

Point made Adino, and it's a good one. It is our acceptance of that fact, through faith that we "do" - at conversion, then publicize at baptism.

Hoovie · #**489** 06-21-2009, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

LOL, he doesn't even say in the name of Jesus. He says that at F,S,HS and the "into" on JEsus name. Sorry but it's a hack job on the Word!

Say what? I took what he said at face value.

..."everyone who has been baptized here over the past four years has been baptized in Jesus name"...

I believed in the context of the thread and above statement, that he does speak the name "Jesus" at baptism.

Do you know something I do not??

Falla39 · #**490** 06-22-2009, 07:01 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fXme...eature=related

Why anyone would not want to say the NAME is a mystery to me!

We choose to take the NAME that is above every name. The only NAME
under heaven whereby we MUST be SAVED.

GOD HIGHLY EXALTED HIM and gave Him A (The) NAME that is ABOVE
EVERY NAME, that at The NAME of JESUS, every knee should bow and
every tongue should confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD, to the GLORY
of GOD THE FATHER!

You don't have a legal contract or can't even go to the bank without
a NAME! Titles will not get the results you desire. Why would we expect
to get the results HE DESIRES by resisting THE NAME! I believe our re-
action to THE Name in water baptism, tells the story.

John 3:17,18
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Mark13:13
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Falla39