God IS Pouring Out His Spirit Upon ALL Flesh--Not Just Oneness Flesh

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

If you are assuming or implying that Trinitarians who profess to have been baptized with the Holy Ghost have instead received a demonic counterfeit... then you're fee to do so. I don't wish to join you in that assumption.

I'd be very careful about uttering such a statement, for reasons that should be obvious.


...

You are jumping to conclusions. You should not assume things that are not stated. For a fact, my wife received the true baptism of the Holy Ghost in Central Assembly of God church.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

If your assumption is true jusxtaposed to Acts 5:32, NOT obeying the command of Peter in Acts 2:38 is NOT disobedience?

Houston, we have a problem!

Originally Posted by TRFrance

If you are assuming or implying that Trinitarians who profess to have been baptized with the Holy Ghost have instead received a demonic counterfeit... then you're free to do so. I don't wish to join you in that assumption.
...

Originally Posted by Apprehended

You are jumping to conclusions. You should not assume things that are not stated. For a fact, my wife received the true baptism of the Holy Ghost in Central Assembly of God church.

Fine. If I'm jumping to conclusions, its only based on reading what you said. So make yourself clear then. It seemed clear that you were "going somewhere with your previous post, although you wouldn't say where you were going with that thought. I can only infer from what you yourself said.

Looking at the thread, the issue at hand, was whether or not Trinitarians had the "real" holy Ghost if they're not baptized in Jesus name. Someone previously was surmising that by not being in obedience to Acts 2:38, they are "in disobedience"...so could we really say they have the Holy Ghost since God gives it to those who obey him? My response to that post is already posted.

You then leave a somewhat cryptic-sounding post, as if to insist that they are in disobedience of Acts 2:38 and you referred to Acts 5:32 again (which says we receive the HG by being in obedience). What else would you be implying by stating "Houston, we have a problem" if we don't see/believe that?

The natural thought then, would be that you were implying that maybe they dont have the "real" Holy Ghost. If that's not what you were saying, fine... I reached the wrong conclusion.

You are correct by the way. I shouldn't assume things that are not clearly stated. I guess if you don't want to be misunderstood, you might want to state your point clearly, instead of just hinting at it.

So tell us clearly then... What did you mean in that post quoted above?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Fine. If I'm jumping to conclusions, its only based on reading what you said. So make yourself clear then. It seemed clear that you were "going somewhere with your previous post, although you wouldn't say where you were going with that thought. I can only infer from what you yourself said.

Looking at the thread, the issue at hand, was whether or not Trinitarians had the "real" holy Ghost if they're not baptized in Jesus name. Someone previously was surmising that by not being in obedience to Acts 2:38, they are "in disobedience"...so could we really say they have the Holy Ghost since God gives it to those who obey him? My response to that post is already posted.

You then leave a somewhat cryptic-sounding post, as if to insist that they are in disobedience of Acts 2:38 and you referred to Acts 5:32 again (which says we receive the HG by being in obedience). What else would you be implying by stating "Houston, we have a problem" if we don't see/believe that?

The natural thought then, would be that you were implying that maybe they dont have the "real" Holy Ghost. If that's not what you were saying, fine... I reached the wrong conclusion.

You are correct by the way. I shouldn't assume things that are not clearly stated. I guess if you don't want to be misunderstood, you might want to state your point clearly, instead of just hinting at it.

So tell us clearly then... What did you mean in that post quoted above?

I think he was saying our strict interpretation of Acts 2:38 that means a person is not forgiven until baptized in the name of Jesus and thus can't receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost until forgiven, is messed up.

The greek word for remission is the same as forgiveness and if forgiveness only happens at baptism in Jesus name then nobody could or should have recieved the Spirit ala Cornelius and his household who were baptized with the Spirit before water baptism.

So then if someone receives the baptism of the Holy Ghost before baptism in water in Jesus name, they must have been forgiven at faith/repentance since the view is that nobody can be filled with the Spirit and still be in their sins.

Thus the fact that the AOG peeps receive the baptism of the HOly Ghost and are not baptized in Jesus name should make us rethink our
soteriological view of Acts 2:38

[nwlife]

There is much, much more, but I know no matter what I would say it would be twisted around by many.

[nwlife]

If he can show even by principles that are in the bible how the point is to be addressed, or show the particular problem in the local assembly and how he want's to address it, then I have no problem respecting what he says. But otherwise....I have come to just ignore most of it.

[Apprehended]

So when sin is still "on the books" and one is still chageable with those sins, having not received neither forgiveness or remission, he can still received the Holy Ghost?

Neither the Word of God nor my spirit agrees with that assessment. My experience with Jesus, the cross and his Spirit causes me to believe that he refuses NONE who come to Him believing.

I would recommend that most apostolics today would just stay away from the book of Acts entirely until they become schooled with the Gospels. They are not measured off the Chief Cornerstone. In fact, with the above interpretation, it is my belief that they are off the foundation slightly.

I might further offer this opinion...

Until we get the Gospel (the cross) straightened out in our hearts, we have left room for the enemy which will deny us a continual victorious life.

[Apprehended]

So, it is should be quite evident that it is not the ordinance that forgives or remits sin, but according to verse twelve, it is the operation of God by FAITH... Not trying to parse the word but it specifically says: in whom also you were raised through the faith of the working of God, raising Him from the dead.

[acharris]

When will three-steppers ever get it? The Holy Ghost is given to them that obey Him! Millions of people have received the Holy Ghost with tongues without the preacher saying, "in the name of Jesus Christ," before baptizing them.

Conclusion:
1. The Holy Ghost will not dwell in an unclean temple.
2. You CAN receive the Holy Ghost without being baptized in Jesus name.
3. The person must be saved in God's eyes before baptism.

DEAL WITH IT. Those are the facts!

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by acharris

When will three-steppers ever get it? The Holy Ghost is given to them that obey Him! Millions of people have received the Holy Ghost with tongues without the preacher saying, "in the name of Jesus Christ," before baptizing them.

Conclusion:
1. The Holy Ghost will not dwell in an unclean temple.
2. You CAN receive the Holy Ghost without being baptized in Jesus name.
3. The person must be saved in God's eyes before baptism.

DEAL WITH IT. Those are the facts!

Question on your #1


This would mean that one must continue to be sinless after infilling for the Holy Ghost to remain in them, as until we "saved folks" confess our sins to Jesus, we do not get forgiveness and cleansing of unrighteousness, right?

[acharris]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Question on your #1


This would mean that one must continue to be sinless after infilling for the Holy Ghost to remain in them, as until we "saved folks" confess our sins to Jesus, we do not get forgiveness and cleansing of unrighteousness, right?

I don't believe that but the UPC teaches that the Holy Ghost will not dwell in an unclean temple