What was the answer to the prayer of Jesus, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us"?
Well, in God's sight we ARE one. There is only one Body of Christ made up of all who have been placed there by the Holy Spirit (ref 1 Cor 12:13). I'm not saying that God is ignorant of our different cliques/organizations but I believe He ignores them.
When the UPC was formed in 1945 it was an attempt to promote unity among Jesus Name Pentecostals. Ministers with differing doctrines of how a person is saved or born again came together and agreed to disagree. A fundamental doctrine statement was written ambiguously enough so that all could agree with it. But, over the years those who were divisive and judgmental worked at discrediting their brethren who did not see eye to eye with them. They used lies, slander, etc and even revised the fundamental doctrine statement in 1973 and passed the affirmation statement in 1992 to "sow discord among the brethren" (ref Proverbs 6:16-19). The UPC is not the only organization with hate mongers. Over the years I have belonged to three different organizations who had the words "Church of Jesus Christ" in their names and those folks have fought and divided and splintered over the years also.
What can we do? Ignore the political/religious organizations/cliques/denominations/schisms/factions/divisions/preachers' unions and accept anyone that Loves the Lord Jesus as our brother and sister
Well, in God's sight we ARE one. There is only one Body of Christ made up of all who have been placed there by the Holy Spirit (ref 1 Cor 12:13). I'm not saying that God is ignorant of our different cliques/organizations but I believe He ignores them.
That may be, but it would make the prayer pointless. He went on to say ". . . that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." It's the world's perception of the church's unity (or lack thereof) that mattered. Now, how was the prayer answered, again?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
That may be, but it would make the prayer pointless. He went on to say ". . . that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." It's the world's perception of the church's unity (or lack thereof) that mattered. Now, how was the prayer answered, again?
Almost thou makest me an athiest...
nah... not really. But there is just no simple answers to these questions.
The poll can't be accurate at any rate. Just about every one is deluded in some way about some thing. The people who are absolutely 100% sure about everything most of all I think. Those people scare me. That kind driveth aeroplanes into buildings and such...
Amongst our own they will , like Bro Sam said... crucify you if you cross them or their theology and ruin you for gain.
That may be, but it would make the prayer pointless. He went on to say ". . . that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." It's the world's perception of the church's unity (or lack thereof) that mattered. Now, how was the prayer answered, again?
Timmy, I agree that what Jesus was praying for was the "perception" of those around us. That His people would have enough unity that folks around would be convinced of the reality of Jesus. He was praying that we (His people) would have enough of His love in us that we would actually love and accept one another. We haven't done a very good job of that. Our attitude towards one another has been a reproach on the name of Jesus. I'm doing a better job of it than I used to but I still have a ways to go.
That may be, but it would make the prayer pointless. He went on to say ". . . that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." It's the world's perception of the church's unity (or lack thereof) that mattered. Now, how was the prayer answered, again?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
Timmy, I agree that what Jesus was praying for was the "perception" of those around us. That His people would have enough unity that folks around would be convinced of the reality of Jesus. He was praying that we (His people) would have enough of His love in us that we would actually love and accept one another. We haven't done a very good job of that. Our attitude towards one another has been a reproach on the name of Jesus. I'm doing a better job of it than I used to but I still have a ways to go.
So, is that a "No"?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
nah... not really. But there is just no simple answers to these questions.
The poll can't be accurate at any rate. Just about every one is deluded in some way about some thing. The people who are absolutely 100% sure about everything most of all I think. Those people scare me. That kind driveth aeroplanes into buildings and such...
Amongst our own they will , like Bro Sam said... crucify you if you cross them or their theology and ruin you for gain.
Why I am an indie and have been for 20 years....
The poll could be accurate if everyone answered "How would I know...".
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Yes, I am deluded. I know this to be a fact because I so frequently have to change, alter, modify, or discard something I held to be true, when I discovered that I embraced something in error.
It is not having a lack of knowledge or understanding (being in error) that God cannot abide, but one who maintains their ignorance willfully, and/or continues to act in opposition to what they "know" to be the truth - even if what they "know" is actually in error.
It is not a question of performance, but of the heart.
It's good to see an older brother, who also sees that he can be wrong sometimes and is not afraid to admit it. I hope when I am older I am still felxible and adaptable in my thinking as you are.
It's good to see an older brother, who also sees that he can be wrong sometimes and is not afraid to admit it. I hope when I am older I am still felxible and adaptable in my thinking as you are.
-Bro. Alex
Careful. Don't be too flexible and adaptable!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I do not see the road ahead of me, I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so.
But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road, though I may know nothing about it.
Therefore I will trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.
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