How many times did you ask God for the Holy Ghost?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Yep, it was easy, once it happened, before it was not.

Kinda like riding a bike?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Kinda like riding a bike?

Learning to ride a bike is harder, imo.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by notofworks

The entire ideal system of "Seeking for the Holy Ghost", which never once took place in the bible, is a major sore subject for me.

It is this concept that makes me run from pentecostalism and makes me thankful for God's grace that allows me to be filled with the Holy Spirit, when I simply believe.

The Samaritans were seeking for the Holy Ghost. They weren't filled until Peter and John came to pray with them.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The Samaritans were seeking for the Holy Ghost. They weren't filled until Peter and John came to pray with them.

Really????? When did they "seek" for the Holy Ghost and not get it?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The Samaritans were seeking for the Holy Ghost. They weren't filled until Peter and John came to pray with them.

There is nothing in the record there in Acts chapter 8 that would indicate that the Samaritans were praying for or seeking for or tarrying for or trying to receive or trying to get the Holy Ghost Baptism at any time after their conversion and water baptism and up to the time when Peter and John made the 40 mile or 2 day journey on foot from Jerusalem to minister the experience to them.

[Sam]

Kenneth Hagin was born again on April 22, 1933 at 405 North College Street in McKinney, Texas. About a year later he was healed of a life threatening heart disorder and began to preach the Word of God as a Baptist preacher. Then he became acquainted with Full Gospel folks and heard about the Holy Ghost Baptism. After searching the Scriptures he realized that although the Holy Spirit was dwelling within him because he was a child of God, there was also a work of the Holy Spirit that God desires to perform in the life of every believer subsequent to or following the new birth experience. That subsequent experience is called being filled with the Holy Spirit or being baptized in the Holy Spirit.

He decided he wanted the Holy Ghost Baptism so he walked over to the parsonage of the Full Gospel Church and knocked on the door. The pastor came to the door and Bro. Hagin told him, “I’ve come to receive the Holy Ghost.”

The pastor told him, “Son, you need to wait.” The church was having a revival service that night, and it was then already 6:00 in the evening, so the pastor wanted him to wait and seek for the baptism in the Spirit in the service.

Bro. Hagin knew he would have to wait till 7:00 for the service to begin, then wait for the preliminaries to be finished, then wait for the preaching to be done and by then it would have been about 9:00 o’clock. He believed that the promise of the HGB was a gift and did not think he would have to wait for a while before receiving a gift that was offered. He blurted out, “But it won’t take me long to receive.”

Because of his obvious eagerness, the pastor said, “Well, come on in then.” As he stepped in the door the pastor told him, “I know you can receive the Holy Ghost right away because we read about it in the Acts of the Apostles. But when you have to wait a long time before you receive the Holy Spirit, the experience means so much more to you.” The pastor continued, “Take me, for instance. It took me three years and six months to receive the Holy Ghost. Oh, I waited and waited; I tarried and I sought. Now that I’ve finally received, the Holy Ghost really means something to me.”

Bro. Hagin said, “Well, poor old Paul didn’t know that. I wish you could have gotten to him and told him about waiting. He didn’t know that, because he received the Holy Ghost immediately when Ananias laid hands on him (Acts 9:17-18). Paul didn’t wait or tarry or seek.” He continued, “But then, all Paul ever did was write about half the New Testament! Of course, he did more single-handedly in the years of his ministry than any denomination has done in five hundred years put together. But, if you could have gotten to him and told him to wait three years and six months to receive the baptism in the Holy Spirit, then maybe the Holy Spirit would have meant something to him too.”

Bro. Hagin continues his story of how he received the Holy Ghost Baptism. He walked into the living room and knelt at a large chair. This is how he relates his experience:

As I knelt in that Full Gospel parsonage in April 1937, I said to the Lord, “Lord the Holy Ghost is a gift. I received salvation by faith. I received healing for my body three years ago by faith. Now I receive the gift of the Holy Ghost by faith. And I want to thank You now, Heavenly Father, because I receive the Holy Spirit.”

Then I said to the Lord “By faith I have now received the Holy Ghost. Thank God He is in me because Jesus promised that in His Word. And I say it with my mouth because I believe in my heart that I have received the Holy Ghost. Now I expect to speak with tongues because believers spoke with tongues on the Day of Pentecost. And thank God, I will, too as the Holy Ghost gives me utterance.”

After I had prayed that, because I was grateful for the Holy Ghost that I had just received and for the speaking with tongues that God was going to give me, I said, “Hallelujah, hallelujah.” But I had never felt so “dry” in all my life saying that word.

Feelings and faith are far removed from each other; in fact, some times when you feel as if you have the least faith, that is when you have the most faith because you do not base your faith on your feelings. So I said, “Hallelujah” about seven or eight times, even though it seemed as if the word was going to choke me.

About the time I had said “Hallelujah” seven or eight times, way down inside of me, in my spirit, I heard these strange words. It seemed as if they were just going around and around in there. It seemed to me that I would know what they would sound like if they were spoken, so I just started speaking them out!

So about eight minutes from the time I first knocked on that pastor’s door, I was speaking with tongues! The pastor had said, “Wait,” but instead of waiting, I spent that hour and a half before the church service speaking in tongues! it is much better to wait with the Holy Ghost than to wait without the Holy Ghost!

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

The Samaritans were seeking for the Holy Ghost. They weren't filled until Peter and John came to pray with them.

You know I love you, Miz, and respect you and admire you and I KNOW you have a heart after God. But this is what baffles me about your position. You are stretched this example beyond all recognition. This story isn't anywhere in the same hemisphere as the grinding at the altar that pentecostals put people through under the guise of being saved through the "Filling of the Holy Ghost."

I don't mean this to be offensive, but can you hear yourself here?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by notofworks

You know I love you, Miz, and respect you and admire you and I KNOW you have a heart after God. But this is what baffles me about your position. You are stretched this example beyond all recognition. This story isn't anywhere in the same hemisphere as the grinding at the altar that pentecostals put people through under the guise of being saved through the "Filling of the Holy Ghost."

I don't mean this to be offensive, but can you hear yourself here?

I'm not offended.

I believe all of the early church taught the same thing. Philip preached the same gospel that the apostles did which was a similar message to what Peter preached on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2. A message that included faith in Christ, repentance, baptism for the forgiveness of sins, the infilling of the Holy Spirit, resurrection, and judgement. The infilling of the Holy Spirit is part of the new birth. And the new birth is a MUST. I'm assuming that Philip preached the same things that Peter preached and therefore Philip would have taught on the baptism of the Spirit with the sign of speaking with other tongues. When the Spirit wasn't given they sent for the apostles who came to them, prayed for them with the laying on of hands, and then they received the Spirit.

We don't just go by the smallest common denominator that we find in all of the conversions and preaching messages found in the book of Acts, which would be faith in Christ, and say "this is what we must do to be saved", but we have to take everything into account.


5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. 7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. 8 And there was great joy in that city. 9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

[noeticknight]

Were the Apostles "tongue doctors," or were they just believing that God would pour out His Spirit if they ministered to the people? Yes, I believe it is complete and total assumption to assert that they were expecting them to speak in tongues as a universal sign.

What do the epistles teach us of salvation? Shouldn't this doctrine of applying the "highest uncommon denominator" to all people for all time have another witness in the didactic portions of the Word?

So you believe that it was the author's intent here to portray the Apostles as "spiritual scientists" conferring back and forth as to who was saved and who wasn't? Could it be a possibility that the author was parenthetically giving a narrative account from a perspective of recollection? Why assume that the Apostles "expected" a sign of tongues? And even if one reasons that they did expect some manifestation to occur, why assume the Samaritans unsaved?

[pelathais]

The experience of "seeking" appears to be more rooted in the 19th Century "revival" movements than it is in any Biblical account. Presumably, the 120 were "seeking" in some manner as they waited for "the promise of the Father," but we don't have any descriptions nor accounts of exactly what they were doing.

All of our efforts are really attempts to recreate the "revival" atmosphere of the 19th Century since that is the only thing we can really touch bases with.

I'm not discounting that experience nor the "seeking" and "tarrying" that goes on. I do, however, think that it's important that we not try and stamp everyone and everything with this same pattern of experience because we will certainly miss out on the other things that God is doing to change lives.

Lacking any account of exactly what it means to "tarry" as per Acts 1 and Acts 2, it is wrong to exclude those who have not gone through the "brush arbor" and "camp meeting" revival experience from the Body of Christ. We must embrace eveything that God has authentically done and recognize as holy every vessel He has filled.