Does the Holy Ghost help you resist temptation?

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Timmy

OK, so what I'm getting from this discussion is that the Holy Ghost can help you resist temptation, but you have to do your part, too. You have to know how to take advantage of that help. And apparently there are some people who know how to do that pretty well, and others who, though they have the HG, don't know how to take advantage of His help. Or don't want to.

So, do you think it's likely that some of the folks who don't do it right are actually worse off than before? Maybe they are over-confident, thinking that the HG will keep them safe but, since they aren't doing their part correctly and perhaps are actually misled into thinking they don't have much of a part to play, they fall all the more easily?

Hello Timmy,

Jesus said the Holy Spirit- the Spirit of Truth- would lead us into all truth (John 16:13). Part of the work of God's Spirit in our life is to effect sanctification (2Th 2:13; 1Pe 1:2), and sanctification is the process whereby we are conformed to the image of the Son of God (Ro 8:29). Paul talked about that process in Ephesians 4, whereby God's Spirit enables us to put off the "old man" (vs. 22) and put on the "new man", which is created in righteousness and true holiness (vs. 24). He concludes by saying:

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph 4:30)

If we yield to God's working in our lives, the Holy Ghost will actively work to convict us of sin, and conform us to the image of the Son of God. If we do not yield to this process, Paul calls it "grieving the Spirit".

In answer to your questions:

So, do you think it's likely that some of the folks who don't do it right are actually worse off than before? Maybe they are over-confident, thinking that the HG will keep them safe but, since they aren't doing their part correctly and perhaps are actually misled into thinking they don't have much of a part to play, they fall all the more easily?

I would say "yes"- they are on dangerous ground. If they are not being actively convicted of sin by the Holy Ghost, that means they have developed a resistance to God's leading, which means they can fall prey to being misled of the devil.

[Timmy]

Thanks for the comments, Dave.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

And I believe you are plain, dead, flat wrong! The Spirit is WITH them but not IN them.

How do you know when someone has been filled with the Holy Spirit?

Well, two things: 1) You're describing a Holy Spirit that hangs out with people but doesn't make a full commitment, kinda like dating someone forever but not marrying them. Ridiculous. You're getting way too fancy with your theology and turning the Holy Spirit into something it was never meant to be, most of it coming from running wild with John 3. 2) There are several places in the NT which describes the Holy Spirit as given to someone separate from your requirement of speaking in tongues, much to your disappointment. I know you desperately want to interpret that as "with people" rather than "in people" but that is rooted in a seed of theological and spiritual superiority and puts you in an "Upper Class". Sorry Mizpeh, but you don't get to sit in a higher spiritual seat than Southern Baptists.

One of the questions I've often asked myself, is, "If I were not a Christian, would I become one based on what I see in Christianity today?" The more I hear some Christians thinking they have something superior to other Christians, the more my answer to that question is, "NO!!!"

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Timmy

OK, so what I'm getting from this discussion is that the Holy Ghost can help you resist temptation, but you have to do your part, too. You have to know how to take advantage of that help. And apparently there are some people who know how to do that pretty well, and others who, though they have the HG, don't know how to take advantage of His help. Or don't want to.

So, do you think it's likely that some of the folks who don't do it right are actually worse off than before? Maybe they are over-confident, thinking that the HG will keep them safe but, since they aren't doing their part correctly and perhaps are actually misled into thinking they don't have much of a part to play, they fall all the more easily?

I'll tell you this, Timmy, if people think they can run the aisles on Sunday and splatter a bit of Tongues on the walls as they run by, they will not be experiencing any of the power of the Holy Spirit...'cause that AIN'T the Holy Spirit. What THAT is, is people disobeying I Corinthians 14.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Well, two things: 1) You're describing a Holy Spirit that hangs out with people but doesn't make a full commitment, kinda like dating someone forever but not marrying them. Ridiculous. You're getting way too fancy with your theology and turning the Holy Spirit into something it was never meant to be, most of it coming from running wild with John 3.

That is not what I'm advocating whatsoever, not in the least. I'm saying that God is with believers working to bring them to a place where they will allow him to dwell within them. God wants the commitment. He wants the convenant to be complete. He leads believers to all truth which includes the truth of the baptism of the Spirit which is accompanied by the sign of speaking with other tongues like the early disciples.

2) There are several places in the NT which describes the Holy Spirit as given to someone separate from your requirement of speaking in tongues, much to your disappointment.

Please show me.

I know you desperately want to interpret that as "with people" rather than "in people" but that is rooted in a seed of theological and spiritual superiority and puts you in an "Upper Class". Sorry Mizpeh, but you don't get to sit in a higher spiritual seat than Southern Baptists

I'm not desperate to interpret the way you think I am. I'm not trying to prove a preconceived doctrine. I believe there is a visible sign which allows believers to know without a shadow of a doubt that they have the Holy Spirit indwelling. They are able to know the day and the hour this happens. They can be secure in their salvation.

Would you mind explaining Acts 8?

I don't think of myself as sitting in a higher spiritual seat than a Baptist. I'm saved by grace just like anyone else. God wants the same for everyone. That goes for you also, Mr Smith. You're the one who is ascribing an attitude of arrogance to me when all I'm doing is telling you what the word of God teaches. The Bible also teaches that no one will be saved who does not come to faith in Jesus Christ. No one. Am I arrogant for saying that as well?

One of the questions I've often asked myself, is, "If I were not a Christian, would I become one based on what I see in Christianity today?" The more I hear some Christians thinking they have something superior to other Christians, the more my answer to that question is, "NO!!!"

Honestly, Mr Smith, I don't think I'm superior to other believers who name the name of Christ. I am what I am by the grace of God. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is for every believer. And you will know without a doubt when you receive it because you will speak with other tongues. If you haven't received it, I urge you to seek God. Faith in Christ and repentance is all that is required.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Does the HS help people He is merely with, but not in? Does He help people more, if He is in them?

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Well, two things: 1) You're describing a Holy Spirit that hangs out with people but doesn't make a full commitment, kinda like dating someone forever but not marrying them. Ridiculous. You're getting way too fancy with your theology and turning the Holy Spirit into something it was never meant to be, most of it coming from running wild with John 3. 2) There are several places in the NT which describes the Holy Spirit as given to someone separate from your requirement of speaking in tongues, much to your disappointment. I know you desperately want to interpret that as "with people" rather than "in people" but that is rooted in a seed of theological and spiritual superiority and puts you in an "Upper Class". Sorry Mizpeh, but you don't get to sit in a higher spiritual seat than Southern Baptists.

One of the questions I've often asked myself, is, "If I were not a Christian, would I become one based on what I see in Christianity today?" The more I hear some Christians thinking they have something superior to other Christians, the more my answer to that question is, "NO!!!"

How does the indwelled presence in a believer (John 3) differ from the Baptism of the Spirit (in function, degree, etc) in your opinion?

Does the Baptism of the Spirit in Acts ever speak to sanctification or even salvation? When do we learn of its role in sanctification, is it accompanied by what is known as the "Baptism of the Spirit," which some believe is evidenced exclusively by glossolalia?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

...and therein lies the entire problem with this entire discussion. You folks ASSUME that people such as Southern Baptist, which do not speak in tongues, do NOT have the Holy Spirit....and you you're just plain, dead, flat wrong.

I agree with you, Mr. Smith.

Speaking in tongues is not the Holy Ghost.

Speaking in tongues is one of the many signs that Jesus said would follow those who believe.



Let's make walking on scorpions without being harmed part of the salvation ritual too!

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

HAVING the HG is not the issue at all. It is YIELDING to the Spirit that makes the difference. Yielding to the Spirit is where victory comes from. Simply having received the HG at one time in one's life is absolutely no guarantee that one will live an overcoming life.

Let the chruch say Amen!

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

How does the indwelled presence in a believer (John 3) differ from the Baptism of the Spirit (in function, degree, etc) in your opinion?

Does the Baptism of the Spirit in Acts ever speak to sanctification or even salvation? When do we learn of its role in sanctification, is it accompanied by what is known as the "Baptism of the Spirit," which some believe is evidenced exclusively by glossolalia?

Max, I suppose it comes down to two different schools of thought and I understand where both sides are coming from. Personally, I believe it's a semantics issue when trying to parse being filled with the Spirit and being baptized in the Spirit. I believe trying to separate those two things is like arguing over "Persons" vs, "Manifestations."

When we see numerous verses in the New Testament that describe a person being given the Holy Spirit at the point of belief, I believe that covers it all.

Obviously, there are arguments against it and I understand those. But I cringe at the idea of spiritual hierarchy, at the idea that some have a higher standing with God because they spoke in tongues.