Paul's writings seem to expose a man who is full of struggle. He was in the middle, so to speak, trying to draw the Jew and Gentile together. He also was deeply frustrated with the Jews wanting to continue in the practice of Old Testament Law, which really verifies the damage of Organized Faith.
Paul also appeared to be honest about his inner man, claiming his struggle within was still with him even after he was converted. Yet at other times his writings seem to drift back into the harsher side of Religion, and a God of little mercy.
Even my previous Pastor, who had been pastoring for 50 years and served in the Organization in high places, would admit that Paul said many things he didn't understand.
I do feel that what Paul did can be interpreted to fit whatever someone wants or is looking for. It's like any Faith or Religion, we take what we like and disregard what we don't.
From what I understand, Paul never started an Organization, per se'. He traveled to different places trying to instruct those who were gathering together with common ground. But as with all Religious gatherings, disputes erupted and agreement was near impossible.
If Paul's writings were to organize a "Faith", then why are there over 30,000 denominal Christian Religions in the World who believe they know what Paul was saying?
I personally believe, Faith has become a complicated array of a million opinions. I don’t believe the Lord ever meant for mankind to be confused about His Plan. God did place within every man a Conscience, and this realm where we decide to do what is right is actually quite easy. In other words, People know when they are in the wrong.
Problem is, Religion comes in with pages and pages of Do’s and Don’ts, and before long a person is consumed by guilt which is nothing more than false condemnation. People in general are weak, and we believe the best intent in others. Unfortunately, men and their organized plans take advantage of the unlearned and this weakness in us, creating a picture about God which is nothing more than a lie.
I do find it interesting that a majority of Mankind has had no access to written books concerning God, and that God never gave a man a book in the beginning. Relational access to God was from the simple and obvious; His Creation. Man relied on a deep inner seeking via his conscience and the Creation around him to be exposed to the moralities of life.
I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I have seen over the last 32 years, 15 of those pastoring myself, what Religion has done to people. I’m also trying to gain a bird’s eye view of the entire scope of our existence to help me gain a deeper and more personal walk with God.
Indy - I just saw this. This post is very troubling to me. To boil it down, what I get from this is:
The Bible is not the inspired word of God.
So, what do you believe?
Indy - I just saw this. This post is very troubling to me. To boil it down, what I get from this is: The Bible is not the inspired word of God.
So, what do you believe?
Interesting. I never said that. But, for the sake of your interpretation of my post please be just a little more specific.
Was anything I said out of context, or, did I lie about Paul's writings and what has happened with these writings?
Also, have you considered that a majority of the Human Race has never read Scripture? Do you also agree that coming together over these writings (The entire Bible) has been a rather difficult endeavor?
LOL - that's funny!
Let's see, you want me to now answer my own question!!!
I would say that yes, Paul did organize the faith.
Another way of putting it is that he clarified the faith, which fits into my definition of organize, in this instance.
Now how about my question to you!
It oozes so it can run over the UPCI's non-sense of men's doctrines. Perhaps, one day, you'll find yourself asking questions too. No, it will not be disrespectful as long as you ask from a genuine heart.
In the words of Mark Twain, "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing."
No, Mark Twain is not my God and I do not look to his writings as my sole guide in life. However, he nailed it right on the head when he wrote this statement.
Indy, what you don't recognize is that I have asked questions. In fact I have outright pointed out what specific things may be wrong or what people I may disagree with. However, that is a far cry from the blanket, slanderous statements that you made about the entire UPCI, its leaders, and the millions of people who support it.
Among those millions there are undoubtedly some who do not have the right spirit, motivation, and hunger for reaching the lost. However, I have travelled this organization in every part of the country and many parts of the world. I can tell you with 100% certainty that your blanket characterization is not only untrue, but unfair to the many great men and women who have given their lives to spread the gospel and reach those unsaved that you say they do not care about.
Your experiences are your experiences. We can only take your word for your experiences, but you just need to recognize that your experiences and observations are not universal.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Indy, what you don't recognize is that I have asked questions. In fact I have outright pointed out what specific things may be wrong or what people I may disagree with. However, that is a far cry from the blanket, slanderous statements that you made about the entire UPCI, its leaders, and the millions of people who support it.
Among those millions there are undoubtedly some who do not have the right spirit, motivation, and hunger for reaching the lost. However, I have travelled this organization in every part of the country and many parts of the world. I can tell you with 100% certainty that your blanket characterization is not only untrue, but unfair to the many great men and women who have given their lives to spread the gospel and reach those unsaved that you say they do not care about.
Your experiences are your experiences. We can only take your word for your experiences, but you just need to recognize that your experiences and observations are not universal.
Well said!
__________________
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Welcome...and way to offend and slander me, my parents, and all of the great UPCI men and women that I know who have dedicated their lives saving low-down, dirty, and/or lost souls. Your new found greater level of spirituality just oozes in this post...
Amen. The UPC has always reached out to the poorest of the poor, looking intentionally for the "worst" of sinners. This is their trademark.
Indy is saying some things of value, but he is missing it on this point.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Your story sounds very similar to mine - only my "extremist" separation came about 25 years ago when I was 18 (and put an irreparable distance between my parents and me), and continued for over 20 years before God started to speak to me and opened my eyes to a lot of inconsistencies.
I'll be praying for you. It's a journey of faith, no doubt. We all just need to be careful that we don't swing to the other extreme. God bless!
Much appreciated! Since your response grants clarification, I will say that God has lead me to a deeper relationship with Him since trying to look beyond the negative experience. The blessings are still flowing to this day. I have not forsaken the gathering of the saints at the church house either. While it took walking through a dark wilderness and enduring all that I have, I can say I'd do it all over again with the same people, except I would have acted upon my own conscience and conviction. Regardless of other responses on here whose choice is to back the UPCI, good for them; they've been shielded and isloated from what others have been exposed to. I would never wish what I've witnessed upon anyone because no one should have to endure what I and many others have had to endure all for the sake of going to Heaven. Period. Blessings to you in return...
Indy - sadly, your spirit again shines through with your latest post. You cannot bear to admit that there might be some truth in what tstew and others have said.
No one is backing the UPCI, it does not need backing.
It is an organization not a person.
The UPCI is made up of people, some great, some good, some not so good.
As I have asked here before.
What do you now believe?
What do you believe is the way to heaven or plan of salvation?
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