The Paranoia Of Grace. - Page 5

Aquila · #41 10-17-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Grace is the FAVOR of God. God being pleased to show you kindness. It is not just a doctrine it is an experience. When you have experienced it it makes you want to be very careful to keep it flowing in your life.

berkeley · #42 10-17-2011, 02:55 PM

KC, Do you hear yourself? You are saying that the church down the street is more holy than your church.

kclee4jc · #43 10-17-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berkeley

KC, Do you hear yourself? You are saying that the church down the street is more holy than your church.

Huh??

berkeley · #44 10-17-2011, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

I go to an "Ultra Con" church and the primary message my pastor preaches is RELATIONSHIP! He preaches prayer, fasting, and a personal relationship with God. He teaches a heart consecration and a love for God. RARELY does he ever preach on standards, and I don't think i have ever heard him preach on pastoral authority. There are few Apostolic churches that hold an higher standard of holiness than what our church holds, but because relationship is emphasised, standards rarely have to be addressed. I have seen wedding rings come off, televisions pitched, and sleeve length increase without ever being addressed by leadership! The Spirit has done the work because of the saints' relationship with God. And never has our pastor threatened us with scary stories of someone "keeling over".

Read this today and thought you were saying that there are a few churches that have a higher standard
than your church. My apologies.

CnJ4Jesus · #45 03-08-2012, 07:28 AM

How can you be a grace preacher without being a holiness preacher. Without holiness, who needs grace? The question is, who's holiness are we preaching. Mine is "filthy rags." However, the righteousness I wear today is perfectly holy, because it's Jesus' righteousness, bought with His blood. And that truth drives me to live in a holy manner as worship - even though it doesn't measure up to God's standards. That is the problem with traditional holiness preaching, it lowers God's standards to something that we can achieve. Grace says I can't but I try anyway because I want to please the one who paid it all for me. My effort is worship, not a necessity to be loved or accepted by my Father.

Aquila · #46 03-08-2012, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CnJ4Jesus

How can you be a grace preacher without being a holiness preacher. Without holiness, who needs grace? The question is, who's holiness are we preaching. Mine is "filthy rags." However, the righteousness I wear today is perfectly holy, because it's Jesus' righteousness, bought with His blood. And that truth drives me to live in a holy manner as worship - even though it doesn't measure up to God's standards. That is the problem with traditional holiness preaching, it lowers God's standards to something that we can achieve. Grace says I can't but I try anyway because I want to please the one who paid it all for me. My effort is worship, not a necessity to be loved or accepted by my Father.

Amen.

Our house church is focusing on what our elder is calling the "law of love":

Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

The concept is simple. Instead of living by a list of rules that supposedly make you "holy" in God's sight, focus all your energy into obeying only two commandments: Love God. Love others. Love on purpose. Determine to love. The idea is that if you love God with all your heart, you'll seek to be sensitive to the Spirit's leading and you will not seek to do that which displeases God. If you love others as yourself, you'll not have ill against them, do them harm, or present a stumbling block before them. You'll readily forgive them for anything they do out of their ignorance and/or carnality. When one does something that displeases God or violates another the issue isn't so much the sin committed (idolatry, doubt, lying, stealing, adultery, etc.), the issue is a failure to love God or love the individual. Therefore repentance is predicated not on, "God, help me not do that again.", but rather, "God, help me love you more. Help me love those in my life more." The elder told us that we should wake up every morning and focus on the commandment to love. And then set out on our day determined to love God and love others as much as we can.

Now, that's some good grace/holiness teaching. Because it has deep implications. For example, modesty. I don't need a "rule" to obey to keep me modest. I need to love others. I need to be concerned as to if I'm presenting a stumbling block before others. Because, if I love them, I'll be mindful of this reality and present my body in modesty. If I love my neighbour, I'm not going to hold anything against them, hate them, lie to them, or take from them. If I love God with all my heart, I'm going to be concerned with entertainment media because I'll not want to displease Him. I don't need a list of "rules". I need to simply... love.

A list of "rules" or "standards" only provides a legalistic framework to live in. You can obey all the little rules and not truely "love" your neighbor...or even God. Love is very heart of true holiness.

bbyrd009 · #47 03-08-2012, 12:50 PM

Ha WHAT A CONCEPT. I see this breaking out everywhere. The church will never be the same. Lives will be "ruined" with this, lol.

Jay · #48 03-08-2012, 08:55 PM

I had to laugh briefly when the question was asked what a UC preacher could preach about if they did not preach standards. Go to Bro. Booker's website and listen to the message that he preaches and the lessons he has taught. I would guess that very few of them are standards oriented.

I am less concerned about the grace of God, but rather His mercy. Grace is the tongs by which the coal of mercy is extended.

bbyrd009 · #49 03-09-2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay

I had to laugh briefly when the question was asked what a UC preacher could preach about if they did not preach standards. Go to Bro. Booker's website and listen to the message that he preaches and the lessons he has taught. I would guess that very few of them are standards oriented.

I am less concerned about the grace of God, but rather His mercy. Grace is the tongs by which the coal of mercy is extended.

Ya, lol, that would be funny, if it wasn't so sad. Wadr, I find your "less concerned about the grace of God, but rather His mercy," at least as disturbing?
"Mercy" just sounds like a death centered way to approach Grace, imo.