Gandhi once told a reporter who was trying to get a story from him as he was leaving on a train "my life is my message." I want to be able to say that also.
And another quote attributed to Gandhi "I like your Christ but dislike your Christians' which is what I think I often hear Timmy saying. So many times Christians are all about things besides what we need to be about.... mostly because we are human and flawed.
It wasn't that I was offended; I often think you are funny.
I feel bad that you think Christians have no credibility. In other words, you are saying that you don't see anyone who you feel really lives up to being what a Christian should be, or anyone who even actually believes what they say they believe.
So you aren’t able to say that while you don’t agree with what we believe, you respect us for living our beliefs.
This dawned on me while I was reading this post, and to be fair it’s not just you who feels this way, so I should not have pointed you out.
It's made me think long and hard Timmy. I want to live what I say I believe.
Gandhi once told a reporter who was trying to get a story from him as he was leaving on a train "my life is my message." I want to be able to say that also.
I said most, not all.
Maybe some examples would help. Titus2woman gave one: that the lost will be tormented forever in hell. Most everyone here says they believe that, but really? In my experience, most who say they believe that don't act like they believe it. They don't witness much, if at all. (Christianese "witness" ) They can't or won't defend the belief against challenges such as questioning the fairness or justice of it.
A lot of people say they believe in the age of accountability: that a child who dies before being able to understand his choice to believe or not is not held accountable, and will go to heaven. But if they really believe that, then they must also believe that it is a loving act of mercy to kill a baby -- or to have an abortion. The child will for sure go to heaven. But letting a child live past the age of accountability is risky for that child: he or she may end up in hell. In fact, the way is narrow and few find it, so the chances are in favor of eternal torment. How could it possibly not be the most loving thing you can do, to kill children? Some try to respond with "it's a sin", which doesn't matter at all -- in fact, it makes it all the more heroic, to risk your own fate for a a child. Thankfully, almost no one actually does think killing children is a good idea. The only explanation I have is that they do not really believe in hell and/or the age of accountability. I.e., they either don't believe in eternal torment for the lost, or they don't believe children who die will avoid it.
But despite all that, I do try to respect you all, and your right to believe what you do. (Or say you do. ) Sometimes, I like to prod you into understanding some of the ramifications and conclusions of those beliefs. Usually though, I don't think it works.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
And another quote attributed to Gandhi "I like your Christ but dislike your Christians' which is what I think I often hear Timmy saying. So many times Christians are all about things besides what we need to be about.... mostly because we are human and flawed.
Actually, I like nearly all the Christians I know. And yes, I do like most of the things Jesus is said to have said and done. Some of them? Not so much. Like promising a reward of eternal life for someone who forsakes his family for Him. Or saying that if you don't believe, you are condemned. Or that you must forgive 70 times 7 times. At least not in all cases. I wouldn't want a battered wife to be that forgiving, for example. But yes, a lot of His teachings are good.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
To be fair, a person can tell us 99 true things, but it tends to be the 1 thing that we notice all out of proportion. Generally because it convicts us, personally, but either way, it is judging another person's walk. What is the chaff to the wheat?
This Christianese word is kind of the opposite in meaning of the English word that's spelled the same. In English, to witness is to see or observe something. In Christianese, to witness is to tell people what you believe, in an effort to convince them to believe the same things and/or to join your religion. (AKA to "get saved". )
I said these words are kind of opposite. Christian witnessing isn't talking about what you have seen (usually). You haven't seen Jesus after He rose from the dead, for example. You believe He has risen, because you believe written reports. Unlike the disciples (not just Thomas), you are expected to believe without seeing. Or, at least, you will be blessed if you do. (So it says.) None of them believed, until they actually witnessed (English!) Him living again. Even the women didn't believe until they saw Him. (That's what it says. You could look it up. )
Anyway, yeah, it's kind of funny how you guys use some words that look like they're English words, but aren't.
Actually, Timmy, to be a witness still holds true even in Christianese (at least in my experience). Notice, Jesus did NOT say we'll be EYE WITNESSES. He said we'll be witnesses. To be an eye witness, you have to see the event.
But to be a witness, you don't have to. One does not necessarily have to see an event to be witness of the event.
Take for instance, a blind man. A blind man does not have to see rain for him to know that's it raining. He only has to experience rain for him to know. Therefore, the blind man can tell you he WITNESSED rain, not because he saw it, but because he experienced it.
Witness (free dictionary)
1.
a. One who can give a firsthand account of something seen, heard, or experienced: a witness to the accident.
b. One who furnishes evidence.
2. Something that serves as evidence; a sign.
3. Law
a. One who is called on to testify before a court.
b. One who is called on to be present at a transaction in order to attest to what takes place.
c. One who signs one's name to a document for the purpose of attesting to its authenticity.
4. An attestation to a fact, statement, or event; testimony.
5.
a. One who publicly affirms religious faith.
b. Witness A member of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
v. wit·nessed, wit·ness·ing, wit·ness·es
v.tr.
1.
a. To be present at or have personal knowledge of.
Of the definitions I highlighted, one says "having evidence, a sign", another "having personal knowledgde". This is what makes a Christian.
No wonder Jesus said we'll be his WITNESSES AFTER WE'VE RECEIVED the Holy Ghost. Honestly, that is what makes one a witness.
Notice, that even though the apostles saw Jesus after his ressurection, they could not witness until AFTER the Holy Ghost came. The Holy Ghost gives a personal knowledge, a sign, fruits of a changed life from the inside out...etc That is part of witnessing about Christ. It's not just talking about Christ. It's about Christ living in you and the fruits will just naturally manifest.
Now, how can I not witness about Jesus Christ? I have experienced him through the Holy Ghost. So I can witness just as assured as those who saw him literally alive after his resurrection.
So I would say being a witness (in christianese...lol) still holds the same meaning as in English.
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...Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ...(Acts 20:21)
My family has always had a different view of 'soul winning'. My dad/pastor once asked to who a converted soul belonged. It goes something like this:
A person prays for the lost souls in their community, but is not very effective at bringing people to church. A second person excels at convincing people to come, but is not able to pray well with people at the altar. A third person can pray almost anybody through if they are ready, but struggles to teach a home Bible study. A fourth person can ground new people in the faith, but is not gifted in any of the other areas. The preacher preaches the word, but has less contact than any of the others due to his responsibilities. The convert is won, but to whom does the soul belong? The prayer warrior, the witness, the altar worker, the teacher, and the pastor all played a role. The convert must therefore belong to God.
Dad explained this principle to a lady in the church where we were attending because she was feeling condemnation for not being able to bring people to church and see them pray through (the pastor was big on everybody 'winning souls' and had stated that if you did not get people to come to church you would end in Hell). The lady was an excellent altar worker and teacher, but was not gifted in outreach. After this was explained to her, she felt more at ease, and had an easier time because she knew where she fit in the work.
Excellent post! That is almost EXACTLY how I look at things. I would even add to the mix that there are some who may do none of the above and yet help financially to support those others, which is yet another type of worker.
Excellent post! That is almost EXACTLY how I look at things. I would even add to the mix that there are some who may do none of the above and yet help financially to support those others, which is yet another type of worker.
This is true. I had thought about posting that, however I could not make it fit into my overall narrative and felt it better to just leave it out. I like Paul's comparison to the church as a body. If everyone does their part, the lost will be reached, souls saved, and God glorified.
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I am an Apostolic Pentecostal. Apostolic in teaching, and Pentecostal in experience.
This is true. I had thought about posting that, however I could not make it fit into my overall narrative and felt it better to just leave it out. I like Paul's comparison to the church as a body. If everyone does their part, the lost will be reached, souls saved, and God glorified.
There is a reason if it often called The Body of Christ.
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